AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, “War, Peace and the Presidency: Breaking with Convention.” I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh. We’re broadcasting from the studios of CAN TV here in Chicago.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We turn now to look at the climate crisis. On Wednesday, climate activists disrupted an event by Punchbowl News on the sidelines of the DNC that was sponsored by ExxonMobil. This is California DNC member RL Miller.

RL MILLER: Yes, I’m a Democratic Committee — National Committee member. I am here because Exxon lied, and people died.

PROTESTERS: Exxon lies, people die! Exxon lies, people die! Exxon lies, people die! Exxon lies, people die!

AMY GOODMAN: So far this week, the climate crisis has barely been mentioned from the stage at the Democratic National Convention. To look more at the climate crisis, we’re joined by three guests.

Michael Mann is with us, climate scientist, professor, University of Pennsylvania. His new article is headlined “Project 2025: The right-wing conspiracy to torpedo global climate action.” His most recent book is titled Our Fragile Moment: How Lessons from Earth’s Past Can Help Us Survive the Climate Crisis.

Collin Rees is with us here in studio in Chicago, political director of Oil Change U.S. This week, they published their updated report titled “Behind the Barrel: New Insights into the Countries and Companies Behind Israel’s Fuel Supply.”

And Tara Houska joins us. She’s an Indigenous lawyer, activist and founder of the Giniw Collective. She is Ojibwe, brutally arrested in 2021 for participating in a nonviolent action in Minnesota against Line 3.

Tara, we’re going to begin with you. You’re joining us from the White Earth Reservation in Minnesota. Tim Walz is the governor of Minnesota. And I’m wondering if you can talk about his record and your activism in Minnesota and how the state has responded.

TARA HOUSKA: I am still carrying the scars of Tim Walz’s environmental legacy in Minnesota, which is one that saw the largest tar sands infrastructure project in North America built, which, Line 3, you mentioned, and basically unfolded a series of, I think, Band-Aids, climate Band-Aids, of, you know, we’re going to electrify the grid, we’re going to try to do some solar panels, we’ll do some investments into renewables, but simultaneously approve massive, massive megaprojects that, you know, the harms of those, 50 new coal-fired plants, irrevocable harm to future generations and to our drinking water, and specifically in Minnesota, calling you from the White Earth Reservation, there were very serious concerns by multiple tribal nations about wild rice and the water quality that would be impacted by Line 3, which it now is. We’re looking at what happens after these folks’ climate policies are put into place.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And what’s his relationship, Tara, in general, to fossil fuels, and your sense of his overall climate policy?

TARA HOUSKA: It seems to me to be a policy that is carried throughout Democratic values currently these days, which is, “We will say that we stand for climate change. We will say that we stand for science. We will say that we are going to engage in policy to move us forward and make progress, while simultaneously allowing in massive, massive pushes against those exact policies and progress.” You’re approving massive tar sands infrastructure projects, while you’re electrifying our buses or something like that. Or you’re saying, “We stand for human rights and for human values,” while simultaneousy allowing a genocide, a crime against humanity, to occur. That seems to be the stance of Democrats these days, including Tim Walz.

AMY GOODMAN: And can you talk about — you’re an Indigenous lawyer, activist, environmentalist. Talk about your arrest, why Line 3 is so significant, and the promises made by Governor Walz when it came to the Indigenous community and informing you about developments and including you in decision-making around environmental issues.

TARA HOUSKA: Governor Walz picked Peggy Flanagan, who is a member of White Earth Nation, as his running mate. She was firmly against Line 3. She came to our protests, engaged in all the demonstrations against the project, years before its construction. And Tim Walz himself, when he was in office, said, you know, Line 3 is a nonstarter, and any pipeline through treaty territory without consent is a nonstarter, and yet allowed the process to continue of approving this project through our wild rice beds, through over 800 wetlands, through over 200 rivers, including the headwaters of the Mississippi River.

I mean, it was, basically, “I’m going to stand back and say let the process play out, and I don’t want to interfere with checks and balances.” But that seems to be the same attitudes we’re seeing from the current vice president — right? — of “I’m going to stand back. I don’t really have any power here.” I mean, you’re sitting in some of the most powerful office of influence in the state, in the country, and saying you don’t have power. That is absolutely insane, when such serious, serious matters sit in front of us.

I personally engaged because this is about my treaty territories, my people’s treaty territories. This is about wild rice. It’s about the continuation of our culture and who we are as people, and faced serious brutality, over a dozen charges, criminal charges. I was put into solitary confinement. I was shot with pepper balls and mace and tear gas and all that stuff, I mean, the same things we saw play out in Standing Rock.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, you just mentioned Peggy Flanagan. Very significant that if Governor Walz becomes vice president, she assumes the governorship. She would be the first Indigenous woman governor in the country. Can you talk about what that would mean?

TARA HOUSKA: I look at it like this. I think that we are seeing history — right? — when these powerful folks step into leadership. I also see that there seems to be a growing sense of, if we put in this specific identity into this seat, that means that we’ve done our jobs. Secretary Deb Haaland was the first Native woman to sit in the secretary of the interior position. Yet in the first two years, they approved more oil and gas leases than the Trump administration.

That is not in line with what the hope is — right? — the hope in making progress like that. The hope is you put someone in those positions who understands the community, who comes from that community, who knows the issues faced, and will be a voice for change, who will push and force those changes to happen, not just maintain the status quo, and not be a face for allowing these harms to occur that have lasting impacts to future generations.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And so, Collin Rees, if you could talk about the significance of the Punchbowl News event sponsored by ExxonMobil, what we introduced earlier in the segment, which occurred just outside the DNC, that you and other climate activists disrupted? What was that event about, and why did you decide to take this collective action then?

COLLIN REES: Thanks, Nermeen.

I think the Punchbowl News event sponsored by Exxon yesterday was essentially another symptom of what Tara has just mentioned, of a Democratic Party that is not actually serious about ending fossil fuels. There have been some cracks of late, some cracks in the facade, in the direction of eliminating fossil fuels or constraining fossil fuel production, but vastly far from what is needed. And so, I think when you have an event on the sidelines of the DNC sponsored by Exxon, with members of Congress showing up and proudly speaking next to them, with clean power lobbyists showing up there, it shows me you’re not serious about climate change.

This is a company that is not only not meeting its climate targets, not a part of the solution in terms of the climate crisis, it’s also actively working to elect Republicans. It is donating vastly more to the Republican Party than to Democrats. They have no place at the Democratic National Convention, and I think we’ve seen that.

As I mentioned, we put out a report earlier this summer called “Big Oil Reality Check,” juxtaposing the rhetoric and climate commitments on paper of these massive oil companies, like Exxon. Exxon scored among the absolute worst. They failed across the board for continuing massive oil and gas expansion, massive human rights violations, despite this rhetoric. So, this is not a serious company that should be involved in the energy transition in any way. They do not deserve a platform here. And we wanted to show up and make that clear.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And your response, in general, to how little the climate crisis has so far been mentioned at the DNC, which you would think, for the Democrats, it’s like a key issue, but it hasn’t really been focused on at all?

COLLIN REES: You would think. I think we have — I think it has been a disquieting lack of discussion around the climate crisis. And I think, in part, that’s because it is increasingly clear that in order to adequately address the climate crisis, we need to be bold. We need to confront these fossil fuel actors. I think the irony, to me, is that these are massively popular political positions. People don’t like Big Oil and Gas. People don’t like Exxon and Chevron destroying their water and polluting their communities and jacking up the price of gas. This is not something that the American people actually want. And so, I think it just goes to show still how deep Big Oil and Gas have their tendrils within the Democratic Party and within key constituencies. Even in the state of Pennsylvania, a majority of residents support banning fracking. These are not radical positions.

And, in fact, I think Vice President Harris would find it’s something that’s really critical to young voters, in particular, and voters on the frontlines of both climate impacts and fossil fuel exploitation and extraction, Indigenous communities, everywhere else. These are voters who are still very concerned about the Biden-Harris administration’s record on fossil fuels, to put it very mildly, also about the genocide in Gaza, and they need to see more action.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring professor Michael Mann into this conversation, climate scientist, professor at University of Pennsylvania. I wanted to get your comment on that, how little it’s been addressed. But your focus really has been Project 2025, that has alarmed so many in this country. Your article headlined “Project 2025: The right-wing conspiracy to torpedo global climate action.” Professor Mann?

MICHAEL MANN: Yeah. Thanks, Amy. It’s good to talk with you.

And I appreciate the comments of the other two panelists here, but I’m going to provide a slightly different perspective, because the real threat here is not the Democratic Party, it’s the Republican Party and this agenda, Project 2025, which will obliterate climate action as we know it. It will get rid of, essentially, all of the climate-related entities within the Environmental Protection Agency. It will ax NOAA, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration, because Republicans don’t even want us measuring the changes in climate.

It will revoke the Inflation Reduction Act, which is the single most successful and important piece of climate legislation that has ever been signed into law and which will achieve roughly 40% reduction in carbon emissions by 2030 if it’s fully implemented. And so, yes, that doesn’t get us far enough. We need a 50% reduction by 2050, and we need to bring those carbon emissions down to zero by mid-century. But it puts us on the right path.

And so, it’s really night and day when it comes to the climate issue. Yes, the Democratic Party, as we’ve heard, hasn’t been perfect here. Part of the problem has been that when President Biden, for example, tried to block new fossil fuel infrastructure on public lands and prevent new drilling, what he encountered, a court system, a Supreme Court that has now been filled with conservative justices who are lackeys for the fossil fuel industry. And so, right now it’s very difficult to get any executive actions on climate past this very conservative Supreme Court. The only way we can change that, of course, is by voting in enough pro-climate politicians, Democrats, not Republicans, who are willing to institute changes in the Supreme Court itself, possibly expanding the court, because they are doing so much damage right now. They’re preventing the executive branch from taking any action on climate.

What we need is legislation, executive action, and we need a Supreme Court that can’t block all of that. And the only way we’re going to do that is by turning out en masse and voting for climate-forward candidates in this next election. It’s really — you know, the choice couldn’t be more stark. It’s really a question of whether or not we will see any meaningful action on climate in the years ahead.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, what would you like to hear Kamala Harris say about climate tonight when she addresses the DNC?

MICHAEL MANN: Yeah, thanks. I’d like to hear her talk a little bit more about it. We’ve heard references to the climate crisis. In fact, it’s been singled out as one of the great challenges we face by a number of speakers. It hasn’t been the central focus.

And part of what I think is going on here, at least this is in my view, there is no path to climate action that doesn’t go through a functioning American democracy. If the U.S. doesn’t take leadership here, the rest of the world won’t, either. And so, there’s been a lot of focus on the threat to democracy, the threat to democracy by the Republican Party, because without American democracy, there can be no action on all of the things we care about.

I would like to hear Kamala make that connection in her speech tonight, to connect the dots, that climate change, the climate crisis is impacting our ability to solve any of the great challenges that we face today, and that there will be no action on climate if we allow Republicans to control the White House or either house of Congress.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to put this question to Collin Rees. That new report by Oil Change International lays out the countries and companies that have transferred most fossil fuels to Israel since it launched its war on Gaza, says they could be liable for complicity in war crimes. Explain.

COLLIN REES: That’s right. So, our new report, “Behind the Barrel,” released in collaboration with Data Desk earlier this week, shows that the countries and companies around the world are continuing to ship oil to Israel, continuing to support the Israeli state, even while they are perpetuating this genocide against the Palestinian people. And two-thirds of that oil, two-thirds of the oil being shipped to Israel, is being shipped by — is oil coming from private and investor-owned companies, such as Exxon, Chevron, BP, as we’ve mentioned. These are the arsonists of global warming, but also driving war and conflict around the world.

And I think it’s important for the countries and companies noted in this report, in our update, to recognize their liability, as well. We’ve heard from others on this program and beyond about the ICJ’s, the International Court of Justice’s, ruling of a plausible genocide that’s occurring. That opens up significant liability for these companies and countries. And we wanted to get this data out there, make it clear that things have not changed in the last few months, despite that ruling from the ICJ and despite incredible resistance from around the world.

AMY GOODMAN: I’m going to give the last word to Tara Houska. What do you want to hear Kamala Harris say as she accepts the presidential nomination tonight from the Democratic Party? We have just like 30 seconds.

TARA HOUSKA: I want to hear Kamala Harris say the words that she is actually open to an arms embargo to actually stop the genocide in Gaza from unfolding. Saying “ceasefire” over and over again as the goalposts continue to shift just isn’t enough. I want her to say that she is going to directly and unequivocally address the climate crisis with actions, not just words.

AMY GOODMAN: Tara Houska, we want to thank you for being with us, Indigenous lawyer, activist, founder of the Giniw Collective, speaking to us from the White Earth Reservation in Minnesota. Collin Rees of Oil Change U.S., we’ll link to your report. And Michael Mann, climate scientist and professor at the University of Pennsylvania, we will also link to your article on Project 2025.

That does it for our show. We’ve expanded to two hours every day here at the Democratic convention. Check out our shows at democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh, from Chicago.