NERMEEN SHAIKH: We begin today’s show in Lebanon, where there’s widespread fear after a second wave of explosions involving electronic devices went off across the country. Israeli agents are reportedly responsible for rigging the devices. On Wednesday, thousands of walkie-talkies and other devices blew up, killing more than 25 people and injuring more than 600. Some of the blasts occurred at funerals for victims of Tuesday’s explosions which targeted electronic pagers, when 12 people were killed and nearly 3,000 injured, including many members of Hezbollah. This was the scene at one funeral on Wednesday.

AMY GOODMAN: Lebanon’s Foreign Minister Abdallah Bou Habib condemned what he called a “blatant assault on Lebanon’s sovereignty and security,” unquote. Hospitals in Lebanon have been overwhelmed with severe injuries as patients have come in after losing eyes and limbs.

DR. DANIA EL HALLAK: We saw young victims, and we saw very old victims. And all just had the same type of wounds. They had puncture wounds on their faces. They had amputated limbs. They had open abdomens, intestines out, bowels out. Unfortunately, there were — there were wounds that you couldn’t explain. There were ruptured eyeballs. There were fractured mandibles, fractured bones, bones out. So, basically, it was the first time I ever see the wounds like that. I couldn’t even classify some wounds or categorize some wounds.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: The New York Times reports the electronic pagers had been manufactured by a front company run by Israeli intelligence officers. Many of the pagers were obtained earlier this year after Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah warned against the use of cellphones to avoid Israeli surveillance. On Wednesday, U.N. Secretary-General António Guterres condemned the weaponization of civilian objects.

SECRETARY-GENERAL ANTÓNIO GUTERRES: I think it’s very important that there is an effective control of civilian objects, not to weaponize civilian objects. That should be a rule that everywhere in the world governments should be able to implement. The link of what’s happening in Lebanon with what’s happened in Gaza is obvious since the beginning. I mean, the Hezbollah has been very clear in saying that it has launched its operations because of what’s happening in Gaza and that it will stop when there will be a ceasefire in Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: On Wednesday, Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said Israel’s focus is turning more to its northern border with Lebanon. He said, quote, “We are at the start of a new phase in the war,” unquote. Meanwhile, Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah is scheduled to give a televised speech today.

We go now to Beirut, where we’re joined by Lara Bitar, editor-in-chief of The Public Source, a Beirut-based independent media organization.

Thanks so much for being with us. These last two days, Lara, have been unprecedented. You have the shock of Tuesday, when all of these pagers exploded, killing 12 people, injuring close to 3,000, and then, yesterday, more explosions in walkie-talkies and not clear what other electronic devices. The total, 37 dead, what, something like 3,500 people injured. Can you describe the situation on the ground right now?

LARA BITAR: Good morning.

So, as you can imagine, the events of the past two days have caused a lot of panic, a lot of fear and, to a large extent, paranoia, which was aided by a disinformation campaign, to a large extent. Over the past couple of days, or at least yesterday, for the most part, people were receiving messages over different WhatsApp groups, on social media platforms, that any and every electronic device can be detonated by the Israelis. So people were scared of using their cellphones. People were hearing that even kitchen appliances were exploding, solar panels, laptops and so on. Thankfully, for the most part, this turned out to be a disinformation campaign, and it did not really — was not really materializing on the ground as was being reported across different channels. That may be the only solace from the events of the past couple of days, where we saw civilian areas and civilians being targeted.

This has been widely reported in the Western press as a sophisticated campaign that targeted alleged Hezbollah operatives, but the reality is that, for the most part, these explosions were occurring in civilian areas, in vegetable markets and in the supermarket and the funeral, as you mentioned. And that’s on one hand, but also, on the other, not everybody who’s carrying these pagers and these walkie-talkies is a Hezbollah fighter, nor were any of them on the combat field or on the frontlines in the southern part of the country. It’s very important to note that Hezbollah is not just a resistance group or a militant group. Hezbollah is also a political party here in Lebanon that is represented in Parliament. And Hezbollah also runs and operates several large civil institutions. So, we saw medical personnel and healthcare workers being killed and injured and maimed by these explosions. We saw children. We saw even the Iranian diplomat. So this was a indiscriminate attack that made the Lebanese population feel that anyone can be targeted, at any point, anywhere in the country.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Lara Bitar, if you could respond — give us a sense of what you expect Hassan Nasrallah to say today when he speaks at 5 p.m. Beirut time? You’ve suggested that this might be the very early stage of a much larger and much bigger war that has the potential to implicate the entire country. What are you expecting in terms of a response from Hezbollah?

LARA BITAR: It’s very difficult to anticipate what the secretary-general will be saying today. But one thing is clear, at least to my mind and to many who are following very closely what’s been happening in Lebanon: It seems that the Israeli government has already taken an action — a decision to escalate, to wage a full-scale war on all of Lebanon. And it seems to me that it doesn’t really matter what Hezbollah decides to do at this point and what form of retaliation the party engages in, that the Israeli — that the genocidal Israeli government has made up its mind to launch a full-scale war on all of the population.

And I think the 2006 war between Israel and Lebanon can give us some significant clues as to what could potentially happen. So, in 2006, which was a war that lasted about 33 or 34 days, Israel started off by cutting communication lines. That was the first thing that it did before launching a wider-scale war on the rest of the country. And it seems like this is what it’s doing yet again, cutting the communication lines, and not just of Hezbollah members, but for military personnel, for paramedics, for aid workers, doctors and so on, causing a lot of disorientation, a lot of chaos, a lot of panic. And then this would be acting as a prelude to something that could potentially be much bigger and much scarier.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Lara Bitar, I’d like to ask you about what the response has been from different political parties in Lebanon to these widespread attacks. Let’s just go to Lebanese parliamentarian Mark Daou, who spoke to the BBC earlier today. This is what he had to say.

MARK DAOU: The reality is Lebanon has been suffering for the past 11 months from the war in Gaza, economically, financially, but also because we had some unilateral actions by Hezbollah, as well, to start bombing from South Lebanon. We’re talking to Hezbollah and telling them you need to take all your decisions within the institutions of the state. Acting as a rogue, unilateral actor on the military front is causing all of Lebanon damages because of Israeli aggressions, their genocidal war and their lack of respect for the rules of war or even for crimes against humanity.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Lara, if you could respond to what Mark Daou said and whether this is a widespread belief, the fact that Hezbollah is operating unilaterally and that it should not be, it should be working within the imperatives and desires of the Lebanese state?

LARA BITAR: So, Lebanon is split between two camps. On one hand, you have Hezbollah supporters who believe that we have a moral, ethical, political duty to stand in solidarity with the Palestinian people in Gaza and also in the West Bank. Hezbollah scholar Amal Saad referred to this as anticipatory self-defense and as military solidarity. We can roughly estimate that about half of the country or so supports this operation and this campaign that was initiated by Hezbollah on October 8.

And on the other hand, the second camp is fiercely in opposition, not only to this operation, but to Hezbollah in general. And they are using the war of the past 11 months as a means to weaken Hezbollah, to attempt to strip the resistance group from its weapons, to demoralize its supporters. The second camp has been consistently lobbying the international community to exert additional pressure on the militant group.

So, right now the country is not really unified. But in the aftermath of the two terrorist attacks that took place on Tuesday and then on Wednesday, we saw for the very first time wide condemnation across the board in Lebanon, but also for the first time, to some extent, in the international community.

AMY GOODMAN: You tweeted on Tuesday, the day of the pager explosions, “We should learn from the mistakes that were committed in 2000 and not repeat them when the next big day of liberation comes. And it will. Sooner or later.” What did you mean?

LARA BITAR: Many of us believe that the liberation of Palestine is inevitable and that it’s only a matter of time. In that tweet, in particular, I was referring to certain individuals, certain groups and, to some extent, some political parties who are constantly agitating against Hezbollah, who have in the past collaborated with Israel, and who would much rather see the country be completely destroyed rather than maintain Hezbollah in power or have Hezbollah maintain its weapons. In that tweet, I was referring to what happened in the aftermath of liberation in May 2000, when the southerners who had endured the torture, the abuse, the humiliation by the Israeli occupation forces and their Lebanese allies, those residents were asked to simply turn the page, to forget about what had happened, and to coexist with those who had tortured them.

And I was just referring to this mistake, in particular, that I believe has allowed these Zionists, to some extent, to continue to operate in the country. We saw something happen during the 2006 war, but this was on the level of government officials. And we know this from WikiLeaks cables. Several prominent government officials were agitating for war against Hezbollah. They were pushing the international community and supporting Israel to continue its bombardment of all of Lebanon in order for them to get rid of Hezbollah. And that, in my opinion, is a betrayal of the citizens of the country and the sovereignty of the country.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: Well, Lara Bitar, I would like you to talk about what your concerns are about how this war could escalate along the border. I’d just like to go to Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, who spoke Wednesday at an air force base near Haifa.

YOAV GALLANT: [translated] I believe that we are at the start of a new phase in the war, and we must adapt. … First of all, the center of gravity is moving north. The meaning is that we are moving resources and forces and energy in the northern direction. … The action is being done by all the bodies, and the goal is a clear one, and it’s simple: to return the residents of the communities in the north to their homes safely.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: So, Lara Bitar, what do you think that means, their moving forces to the northern border?

LARA BITAR: It’s difficult to predict, but again, looking at the 2006 war, we can expect the bombing of bridges, of roads, power plants, irrigation and drinking water systems and other vital infrastructure. In 2006, an airport runway was also bombarded, and Israel imposed a sea, air and land blockade on Lebanon.

But I just want to address the point that this war that Israel will be waging against Lebanon is an attempt to return its settlers to the northern part of occupied Palestine. And I imagine that this is how most media organizations will be reporting on this war. But I think it’s important for us to go back a little bit in history and recall that Zionist organizations, as early as 1919, were pushing for the demarcation of the border after the Litani River, which means 30 kilometers, or 19 or 20 miles, deep inside Lebanon. So, this is not really very much about returning the settlers to their homes, but this is about this long-standing desire and intent of the Zionist project to seize the Litani River.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Lara Bitar, finally, will this —

LARA BITAR: Or I should say parts of the Litani River. Yes?

AMY GOODMAN: Will this make Hezbollah more popular in Lebanon? And compare its power to the Lebanese government.

LARA BITAR: There is no Lebanese government really to speak of. Lebanon is still reeling from an economic crisis that started in 2019. The state is almost bankrupt. Most state institutions are barely functional. There is absolutely no comparison between the power of the Lebanese government in comparison to Hezbollah.

AMY GOODMAN: Lara Bitar, we want to thank you very much —

LARA BITAR: And as far as Hezbollah’s — sure.

AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead.

LARA BITAR: I just wanted to respond to the question of Hezbollah’s popularity and support. We do know that Hezbollah supporters are only increasing their actions, their mobilizations, their support of the party. And it doesn’t really seem to matter what the political group does or the militant group does. Their supporters are fiercely behind them. And what we’ve been hearing over the past couple of days, but also over the past 11 months, is that they continue to be even more determined to wage this war against Israel. And the supporters of the party and loyalists to the party are willing to give up their children, their homes, their livelihoods in support of the mission and political project of Hezbollah.

AMY GOODMAN: Lara Bitar, editor-in-chief of The Public Source, speaking to us from Beirut. The Public Source, a Beirut-based independent media organization.

Coming up, we speak with Maya Berry. She’s executive director of the Arab American Institute, came under fierce questioning by Republican senators during a hearing on hate crimes this week. And we’ll be speaking with a congressmember from Illinois who’s introduced a bill against hate crimes, based on the 6-year-old Palestinian death in Chicago, a little boy killed by his landlord. Stay with us.