AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman in Toronto, Canada. Juan González is in Chicago.

What will it take to transition world economies away from fossil fuels? On Friday, more than 50 countries began gathering in the Caribbean coastal city of Santa Marta, Colombia, in a groundbreaking effort to open another channel of global cooperation on climate change, after years of frustration over the U.N.-led COP process, which requires consensus. The transitioning away from fossil fuels initiative was launched in the final hours of COP30 held in Belém, Brazil, last year, as fossil fuel-producing countries led by Saudi Arabia and Russia blocked binding commitments sought by more ambitious nations.

Colombia and the Netherlands are co-hosting the gathering, billed as a coalition of the willing. This is Colombia’s Minister of the Environment and Sustainable Development Irene Vélez in her opening remarks.

IRENE VÉLEZ TORRES: [translated] Thirty-one years after the first COP on climate change, global CO2 emissions have increased by at least 65%. It could be said that we have failed, but we would also like to think that we are precisely at a moment of opportunity when the window has not yet closed. … The transition faces technical, economic and, let us say plainly, geopolitical obstacles, because despite having a science-based agreed roadmap, we are also under enormous pressure in a changing world where decisions also end up being shaped by the pressure of war.

AMY GOODMAN: Several major fossil fuel powers, including Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Nigeria and Norway, are in attendance. The timing of the summit couldn’t be more relevant, as the U.S.-Israeli war on Iran and the closure of the Strait of Hormuz has focused world attention on the vulnerabilities of a fossil fuel-dominated economy.

For more, we go directly to Santa Marta, Colombia, where we’re joined by Kumi Naidoo, South African human rights and environmental justice activist, president of the Fossil Fuel Treaty Initiative, former head of Greenpeace International, as well Amnesty International.

Kumi, welcome back to Democracy Now! Nearly 60 nations are gathering where you are for the first global summit on phasing out fossil fuels. Can you talk about the significance of this moment, of this summit?

KUMI NAIDOO: Thank you, Amy. And greetings to your listeners and viewers.

To put it very simply, so that we all can understand, imagine one day you rush off to work in a hurry. You get home, you open the door, and you see water coming out of the bathroom. As you pass the kitchen, you pick up the mop. You go to the bathroom, you open the door, and you see, oh, in rushing to work, you left the stopper on, and the water has, you know, filled up and was now flowing into the passageway. What do you do first? Do you start mopping the floor first, or you turn off the tap? So, the frustration comes from 30 years of mopping up the floor and not addressing the root cause of climate change, which is our dependence and addiction to fossil fuels, which is at least more than 75 to 86% of the problem of what’s driving climate change.

So, we have been together at many climate negotiations. And you’ll remember, in Copenhagen in 2009, we asked for a FAB deal, not a fabulous deal, but a fair, ambitious and binding deal. And each year, what we get is a FLAB outcome, full of loopholes and — I’ll leave it to the imagination of your audience to say what the B stands for. So, eventually, now we are saying that we have to take the process of the most ambitious countries, who accept the science, to actually come together and provide leadership where we are not constrained by the reality of the climate negotiations, where you need absolute consensus.

So, that’s where the conference comes in. It’s inspired by other moments in history where progress outside of formal U.N. processes — just to take an example, the landmine treaty, for example, was negotiated completely outside of the U.N. system and then brought into the U.N. system, and then with the overwhelming number of countries actually supporting it. So, this gathering in Santa Marta is about breaking the deadlock, creating a space where mission is not held hostage and where real pathways to phase out fossil fuels can be discussed openly and honestly.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now, Kumi, in the gathering at Santa Marta, there are still major nations that skipped the summit, including China, India and Russia. Can you talk about the significance of countries like this not attending, even though many would argue that China has made tremendous strides in moving toward renewable energy, more than many people expected?

KUMI NAIDOO: So, we expect dominant nations to join once this momentum gets going. Like, so, for example, we would not really find it helpful to have the United States at the negotiation — at this conference right now, because the United States government, acting against the interests of its own citizens, as they have done for decades now, will come there and block any progress, because they are so beholden to the fossil fuel industry oligarchs, and they serve those interests rather than serve the interests of the American people or people in the world at large. So, we are seeing now leadership coming from the most ambitious countries and those that don’t contest the science, those that are not saying, “Drill, baby, drill,” and so on.

So, bottom line is, you know, there was Field of Dreams by Kevin Costner — you remember the movie? — where the tagline was, “If you build it, they will come.” So, we are building a undeniable science-based vehicle to move us forward, and we would rather the dominant nations, like the U.S., like Saudi Arabia, like Russia and so on, don’t actually come now and contaminate the conversations and bring down ambition, as they have done repeatedly, year in, year out, at the climate negotiations.

AMY GOODMAN: Kumi Naidoo, Hormuz is a checkpoint — is really a chokepoint for a fifth of the world’s oil, now a war zone. How do you convince nations like India that building more renewables is safer and more reasonable than digging up more of their own coal, and countries like the U.S.?

KUMI NAIDOO: Well, I think President Trump is actually an accidental advocate here for phasing out of fossil fuels. It’s not a secret — we’ve known it for decades, right? — that fossil fuels is the biggest conflict driver and the biggest driver of war. You know, on a lighter note, you might remember that the horrific violation of international law when the Iraq invasion happened was called Operation Iraqi Freedom. Evidently, it was called Operation Iraqi Liberation, which spelled ”OIL,” and then they changed it to Operation Iraqi Freedom. So, basically, most people know that these wars are driven by fossil fuel interests.

And I think this terrible invasion of Iran that has happened and this attack basically has sent a message to many people, including in India and elsewhere, that fossil fuels is not a safe way to be able to secure your energy needs. And I think that, overall, what we are seeing, conversations happening on the ground, the advocacy of social movements to push the governments, is actually getting some currency because of the exposure of our dependency. Imagine, if one strait can shut down fertilizer, can shut down — drive up costs of fuel and so on, is this the system we want to live on, with this level of vulnerability? I believe most ordinary people in the world want to break away from that system. And that’s why we are optimistic that more people will be with us now to phase out, on the fastest possible timeline, in the fairest possible way, from fossil fuels. And we are seeing that shift happening in public opinions, accelerated by the anxieties over the shutting down of the Strait of Hormuz.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Kumi, we just have about a minute, but the conference is scheduled to last until April 29th. What single concrete outcome would make you declare this summit a real success?

KUMI NAIDOO: So, one, that there is no question, after this, we will get the focus on fossil fuels in a fundamental way. So, it needs to have a basis of a fossil fuel phaseout plan that even the COP process will not be able to ignore. But we already have an in-principle agreement, which is that in the first quarter of next year, irrespective of what happens in Turkey, we’ll have the second fossil fuel phaseout conference. And if this year lays the basis, which we hope it will, to actual negotiations starting by the most ambitious countries, that would be — not, obviously, immediately, but in the course of next year — will be the best possible outcome from this conference.

AMY GOODMAN: Kumi Naidoo, thanks so much for being with us, South African human rights, environmental justice activist, president of the Fossil
Fuel Treaty Initiative, speaking to us from Santa Marta, Colombia.

And that does it for the show. I’m in Toronto for the Hot Docs Film Festival, where the new documentary about Democracy Now!, Steal This Story, Please!, is being featured in the festival’s Big Ideas program. I’ll be joining one of the film’s directors, Tia Lessin, for a conversation with the award-winning Canadian journalist and filmmaker Michelle Shephard tonight in Toronto. Juan will be in Chicago tomorrow.