AMY GOODMAN: But right now we’re going up to New York to our studios at WBAI radio, where Juan González is standing by, or sitting, I hope, Juan González, who is a columnist with the Daily News, who has a new book out, which is a collection of his columns, called Roll Down Your Window: Stories from a Forgotten America. And I really recommend it to everyone, the idea of when you go into communities that you don’t know, instead of locking up that door and rolling up your window, rolling it down. And you can do that by getting the book and taking a glimpse at an America that you may not know a lot about. Juan, welcome to Democracy Now!

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Amy, good morning to you.

AMY GOODMAN: Morning. It’s good to hear you.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, we have this morning with us Dennis Rivera, who is the president of 1199, the National Health and Human Service Employees Union. It’s one of the largest unions in New York City, about 117,000 members. And welcome, Dennis.

DENNIS RIVERA: Welcome.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Dennis, I’d like to start out. Just last week, it was announced that 1199 has rejoined the AFL-CIO, after being an independent union outside the AFL structure for several years. What made you decide at this particular time to rejoin the AFL-CIO, seeing as this is going to cost you about a million dollars a year in dues now that you’ve got to pay to the parent organization? What were the decisions that made your leadership decide to rejoin?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, what happened was that we think that there’s a lot of changes in the AFL-CIO right now. We have seen the election of Mr. Sweeney as the president of the AFL-CIO and his commitment to fight for the progressive causes and reinvigorate the labor movement. And we believe that we would be accepted. We had asked, during the tenure of Lane Kirkland, for a charter, and we was denied. And now under the leadership of Mr. Sweeney, we were accepted as a national organization.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: When you say as a charter, in other words, as a union not affiliated to — because I know several years back there was talk that you might affiliate with the social — with the Service Employees International Union or with AFSCME. But now you’re going to be an independent union. Does that mean you’re going to be going out across the country to organize health workers, or will you stay within New York state?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, our goal — although we have the ability to go and organize all over the country as a national organization, at this moment our objective is to concentrate in New York state.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Now, in terms of the presidential race this year, what do you see as the critical role that labor can play? Everyone keeps talking about, or many in the dominant media keep talking about, the lack of power or the decline of the American labor movement. What do you see as the major roles that 1199 would like to see the AFL play in this presidential race?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, I think, particularly as it relates to the House of Representatives, right now we’re working very closely with Congressman Gephardt to win back the House of Representatives. There’s going to be about close to 150 races all over the country in which Republicans are going to be challenged. And we believe that if the elections were held today, we will win — I mean, the Democrats will win back the House of Representatives. So, assisting in that effort, by providing volunteers, identifying candidates, providing money for those campaigns, I think, will be crucial. I think if we can win back the House of Representatives, that will be a significant contribution to change the course of events in America.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: So, you think that that is even more important than retaining the White House for Bill Clinton and the Democrats, or…?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, I believe at this moment that if the election were held today, President Clinton would be reelected, particularly for what’s happening in the Republican Party in the primaries, that there’s not a clear consensus of a candidate, although in politics right now we’ve seen that about six months is a lifetime, and many things could change. I think — I believe that President Clinton has excellent chances of being reelected, and that by assisting winning back the House of Representatives, we can assist him to get reelected, too.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Dennis, we’re getting a little bit of feedback. I don’t know if you have your radio on or not. But, if possible, if you could turn it off? But in terms of the —

DENNIS RIVERA: Juan, I do not have a radio here. It’s in your station.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: OK. OK, fine, no problem. We’ll try to see what we can do to fix it. All right. In terms of the situation with the — you have your vice president now. Gerry Hudson has been named the political director of the Democratic Party now for New York state. Is the union, 1199, perhaps becoming too identified within the structure of the Democratic Party? There are some, I guess, who are more progressive, who will be saying that at this stage the union’s progressive history is being too identified to the party.

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, we believe that the first and primary reason that we have as existence of the union is to make the members of our union live a better life for them and their family. And at this crucial moment in history, the objective reality is that the Republicans are in control of the Senate, U.S. Senate, U.S. House of Representatives. They’re in control of the government in New York state and in New York City and the New York state Senate. And we need to build the greatest coalition to stop them from assuming greater political concentration of their power. And we believe that inside the Democratic Party at this moment, we have the best chances of stopping the Republicans. And that’s our analysis.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, but, for instance, a couple of years back, when the Democrats were in control of Congress and the president proposed a major healthcare reform, which I know you were heavily involved in, but the — even with the Democratic majorities, that healthcare reform, that many Americans felt was so critical to their futures, was not able to be passed. What makes you think that with a Democratic majority even in the House, let’s say, and in the White House, that things are going to change in terms of being able to get these substantive pieces of legislation that would affect people’s lives passed in a way that would result in positive benefit for the people?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, Juan, there’s a bitter debate inside the Democratic Party about which should be the policies that they should stand for. I believe that inside the Democratic Party, we have to fight to have the most progressive party that responds to the needs of the people. In order for us to be in that debate, we need to be inside the Democratic Party. The polarization in American politics is more dramatic now than I could record, as evidenced by the Republican prime. I believe that by participating in the Democratic Party, we can influence its direction. And that’s what we believe. Juan, by the way, I got a terrible — I can hardly hear you.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Uh-huh.

DENNIS RIVERA: And —

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yeah, no, I can hear you perfectly well. Now, but in terms of healthcare itself, there are major changes occurring within the healthcare industry. A lot of the both private hospitals are concentrating and building networks. What do you see as the critical changes in healthcare that are going to affect the average working-class American over the next year or two or five years down the line that have to be addressed by progressives?

AMY GOODMAN: You’re listening to Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman in Washington studios, and Juan González in our studios at WBAI radio and Dennis Rivera on the telephone. We’re having a little trouble getting this echo out of his voice. Dennis Rivera, head of 1199, which is the local health and hospital workers’ union, a very powerful force in New York City politics. Let’s see if we can hear them a little bit now. We also want to get into the question of how a union supports a Democratic Party that was pro-NAFTA, North American Free Trade Agreement, as you heard Bernie Sanders just saying, extremely, even more so than Bush — very much, President Clinton was pushing through this plan in Congress — and also ask him about healthcare and whether he was satisfied with the Clinton plan, and how it is that it’s dropped off the front pages of the papers just because Washington just doesn’t want to emphasize it.

You’re listening to WBAI radio in New York, WPFW here in Washington, D.C. And I want to let people know, as we just clear up the phone lines a little bit, for those who are calling in and asking for Bernie Sanders’ CD, his recording, his tape, we want to let you know that you can call to get it. I’m a little surprised people want it, but, you know, to each his or her own. And you can call White Crow Records at 802-658-1270. That’s 802-658-1270. And you can get a copy of Bernie Sanders and 30 Vermont artists singing and talking and doing whatever they’re doing, “We Shall Overcome.” That’s the way you can get that.

Also, I want to let you know that on the next edition of Democracy Now! — that’s tomorrow — Pacifica’s daily election radio program, coverage of the Media and Democracy Congress. Over 600 grassroots activists and progressive journalists from radio, television, print and the internet are gathering in San Francisco to discuss the telecommunications bill and the threat to media monopolies, the threat that they pose to independent voices. The whole Democracy Now! team — Salim Muwakkil, Juan González, Larry Bensky and I — will be there. And we urge you to join Pacifica’s Democracy Now! for coverage of this historic gathering and for a grassroots look at the state of American democracy and the state of the U.S. media. Let’s go back now to New York with Juan González and Dennis Rivera.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Yes, Dennis, in terms of — we were talking about the healthcare situation and the fact that it’s gone off the front pages, but it’s still a major issue for the average American. What do you see as what has to happen in terms of what progressives can do to impact on changes in healthcare policy in the country?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, the biggest problem that we have is that 41 million Americans do not have healthcare coverage right now. And that number is growing. And there’s about 60 more million Americans who do not have adequate coverage. How we can rescue that debate again is very important. Why once — excuse me. Once the debate on the healthcare debate with Clinton ended, the insurance companies ended controlling the debate. And at this moment they are the people who are at the control of the process. In the past, the healthcare industry was driven by providers. Now it’s driven — namely, healthcare institutions and facilities. Now it’s by the insurance companies. And as long as they are dictating the terms of the delivery of healthcare, we are in a very bad situation in America.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: But in terms of the mistakes that were made that did not allow a healthcare plan to pass, I mean, what mistakes were made on the part of more progressive, or even within the Democratic Party, that when they had a majority in Congress, they were not able to get a bill passed?

DENNIS RIVERA: I think that it started with ourselves in 1199. We nitpicked too much, and we wanted such a perfect bill, that we helped defeat it. I think that we should have accepted a broad concept, and then try to win that and then improve it. I think by trying to fix all the fine details, we all assisted in the process of defeating that bill. Objectively speaking, we were not organized in the most scientific and best way across the country to make a campaign for national healthcare. The insurance companies were able to campaign to the 80% of Americans who have healthcare coverage that they will, in some way, shape or form, be affected by the debate that was happening.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, in terms of the increased push to a privatization in healthcare, obviously, in New York City, the public hospital system is being sold off little by little by the mayor, and throughout the country for-profit healthcare operations are gaining in strength. What do you see as a strategy that can hold this back? And how can your union or other people in the health field bring health issues back onto the table as part of the national debate in this presidential election?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, we need to keep having the debate about what kind of society are we going to have. For example, in New York City, there is a guarantee that if you are sick and you do not have healthcare coverage, you can go to a public hospital and receive care. We need to fight for that value in our society. If we give up on that value, we lose as a society. And what we need to do is engage that debate about — on the moral question of: Is it a rational expectation that people can receive healthcare whenever they need it, regardless of their ability to pay? And we need to have that crusade. And we need to enlist the religious leaders and the civic leaders and the people of goodwill in that fight.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And the union — your union has a long history of massive mobilizations, of bringing people into the streets and into lobbying efforts, both in Albany and in Washington, around particular issues. And you’ve had a long, good history of being able to organize people in large numbers. What do you see coming up in the next few months as the major direction that you’re going to direct your forces to, both in New York City and in your influence throughout the country?

DENNIS RIVERA: Well, we are planning, on March — excuse me, on June the 1st — I’d like to repeat that date: On June 1st, the Children’s Defense Fund, under the leadership of Marian Wright Edelman —

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Dennis, we’re going to have to — I’m sorry, we’re going to have to cut it. We’re going to have to say goodbye right now. Thanks for being with us. And we hope to have you back again.

DENNIS RIVERA: And I apologize.

AMY GOODMAN: And I want to thank Juan González and Dennis Rivera and let you know that tomorrow we’ll give you the full details on those June 1st plans with the Children’s Defense Fund and 1199. Juan, thanks for joining us from New York. And that ends another edition of Democracy Now! Democracy Now! is produced by Julie Drizin with assistance from Pat Greenfield and Carol Douglass. Our engineer is John O’Leary in Washington and Errol Maitland in New York. And if you’d like any copy of Democracy Now! or the Alternative State of the Union address by Bernie Sanders, our guest earlier today, you can call 1-800-735-0230. I’m Amy Goodman. Join us for another edition of Democracy Now!, Pacifica’s daily grassroots program covering the presidential campaign and the state of American democracy.