AMY GOODMAN: You’re listening to Pacifica Radio’s Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman.

The Northern Ireland peace deal struck this weekend between Ireland, Britain and political leaders of the British-rule province faces a tough road ahead. The 67-page agreement calls for the election of a new 108-seat Northern Ireland Assembly, which will safeguard the rights of the minority nationalist and Catholic populations through proportional representation. The deal also calls for a cross-border body that will harmonize policy in the two parts of Ireland, a move that gives Dublin a hands-on role in the affairs of the North of Ireland. In return, Dublin will amend the Irish Republic’s Constitution, dropping its claim to Northern Ireland.

The nationalists in the six counties of the North of Ireland have long been fighting decades of domination and discrimination by the ruling unionist majority, so called because they seek to remain part of the union of Britain. The unionists, who control most of the main institutions in the province, are generally Protestants. But over the last quarter-century, the Irish Republican Army has waged an armed campaign against unionist hegemony and British rule and have insisted on Irish reunification. The latest peace deal ensures that the North of Ireland will stay part of the United Kingdom until the majority of its people vote otherwise. The people of the North will head to the polls May 22nd to vote on the referendum. And Washington, London and Dublin are mobilizing to sway voters their way.

We’re joined right now by Mairead Maguire, the co-founder and president of Peace People, an organization committed to nonviolence in bringing about social and political change in the North of Ireland. She won the Nobel Peace Prize with Betty Williams in 1976.

Welcome to Democracy Now!, Mairead Corrigan Maguire.

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Thank you very much. Good morning, Amy.

AMY GOODMAN: Good morning. What is your response, your reaction to this Northern Ireland peace deal struck this weekend?

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Well, I think it’s wonderful, Amy. I really do think it’s a little bit of a miracle, because we have an agreement here that — within which there is something for everybody. And in trying to come to a consensus agreement, all have had to give something, but most certainly in this agreement, there is a lot that people are getting, as well. So, I feel it is quite a miracle, and I am very hopeful for the future. I do recognize the way, Amy, that this agreement will give us political stability, but we really have to continue to build the peace.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the various aspects of this agreement? For example, the Northern Ireland Assembly that will have 108 seats, the cross-border body that will harmonize policy in the two parts of Ireland, what about each of these?

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Well, I think now the Northern Ireland Assembly, it’s a long time from when we have had a parliament in Northern Ireland. But on this special one will be that we have all shades of political opinion represented at this assembly, which is tremendous. The fact we have nationalists, unionists, republicans, loyalists, we have to gather around a table, we have negotiated an agreement is tremendous. This has never happened before. So, that’s good. It will take a time to kind of — for the friendships to be built. Tragically, there is a lot of distrust there. I mean, even though the unionists and nationalists and republicans and loyalists have been at the negotiating table for almost two years, there’s still some people who are not even speaking to each other now. These relationships need to be built, and trust needs to be built. But I feel that we most certainly will be able to get there. The North-South bodies, again, the fact that for quite a long time now there have been cross-border bodies in tourism, agriculture, many other areas, this work will be able to be increased now. And since we’re expecting a lot of tourists now to come to the North of Ireland, that also will help our economy. So, there are a lot of good things happening there and in these new institutions.

AMY GOODMAN: You know, I understand that in the campaigning that’s going on by the unionists to accept this, as well as by Gerry Adams, who heads up Sinn Féin, that he is going around saying, you know, “We will soon have the majority and will be able to, you know, rule then the Northern Ireland Assembly.” Unionists are saying they won’t have the majority. What is your feeling about that?

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Well, Amy, I think that that is not helpful, that kind of approach. I mean, really, in the North of Ireland, we need to build relationships between the different communities. We need to build trust. We need to work together, because, essentially, the problem is within the North of Ireland and people learning to trust each other and work together. Now, the political institutions are being put in place that will meet a lot of our needs and the human rights, justice issues, etc. But unless we build a trust within the communities here, that then this thing could well unwind. And I don’t think it’s helpful for one crowd to be talking in a win-lose situation. We must all come through this situation in a win-win with the deepest respect and trust for the different traditions, the different identities that are here, and to make the justice work. And that’s the most important thing.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think, Mairead Maguire, that the nationalists will ultimately support this deal? Do you think the unionists will?

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Yes, I do think so. I mean, I believe that the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland want peace. There is a very strong recognition, particularly amongst the younger generation, that we can’t go along the old road, that we have to build relationships, and we have to work together in what is an interdependent Northern Ireland, interdependent North-South Ireland, with close links to Britain and close links to Europe. I mean, the world is becoming small now, and there is that pressure from many people to compromise and to get — make things work.

Now, there will be, tragically, on both sides of the extremes, loyalists and republicans, who will feel that there’s not enough in it for them. But I think for the vast majority of people, they are willing to compromise. That does not say that there’s not fear and anxiety and that some people feel they have given too much and not gotten enough. But I do believe that whenever people sit down and study the document, that they’ll see that there’s a lot in it.

So, this weekend, the Sinn Féin ard fheis are discussing it, and also this weekend the unionists are having their conference to discuss it. And it’s essentially up to the people of the North of Ireland and the people of the South of Ireland to say, you know, do we want to go forward in friendship, reconciliation and build on these political institutions that offer us a way forward and a just and fair way forward, or do we want to go backwards? And I think that most people will decide, yes, we want to go forward. So, I’m very hopeful.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Mairead Corrigan Maguire, and she is co-founder and president of Peace People, an organization committed to nonviolence in bringing about social and political change in the North of Ireland, and she won the Nobel Peace Prize with Betty Williams in 1976 for her efforts. She’s actually just returned from a trip to the United States, and we’re speaking to her in Belfast. We understand that right-wing Protestant leader Ian Paisley is leading a campaign urging public rejection of the accord. How significant are his forces?

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Well, Dr. Paisley is articulating a view of some in the unionist community feeling that Dublin has been given too much of a say in Northern Irish affairs by this agreement. I don’t think that it is a big number by any matter of means. The stronger voice would be articulated through the Unionist Party, and David Trimble has been very courageous in bringing with him the Unionist Party and many unionists and saying, “Look, we have to cooperate. We have to go forward together in accepting the agreement.” So I feel that that will happen.

AMY GOODMAN: Mairead Maguire, you look at a situation, for example, between the Israelis and the Palestinians, the Oslo Accord, and it seems that all things have broken down right now. Why do you think Ireland will be any different?

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Well, I think this agreement — and I pay tribute to all those people, all the politicians and the people who put this together — this agreement is really a very just agreement. It deals very fairly with a lot of the issues that groups such as ourselves and many others have been campaigning on for many years. We have been talking of the need for the human rights agenda to be dealt with. We have been calling for things like a bill of rights, also saying that we need to get the repeal of the Emergency Provisions Act repealed, because these ethnic political conflicts between people are not solved through draconian legislation or militarism or paramilitarism. And all these things are within that agreement.

Also, we’ve been saying very clearly that we would like to see the prisoners released as part of the package to help the healing process. And again, within the next two years, prisoners, paramilitary prisoners, both loyalist and republican, will be released. Even today, some IRA men have been released in the South of Ireland. And we feel these are tremendously just and courageous steps that really have to be taken in order to really build the democracy here and build a sense of justice and confidence. Again, the police will be commissioned to look at changes in the police.

Now, one has got to deal with all these issues, but it takes all-inclusive talks and people to sit down around a table, all parties to the conflict. And also, the governments who can help to actually help facilitate that in the whole part of the process here was the American government, the British, Irish government, helping the process. And particularly I pay very high tribute to Senator Mitchell, who chaired these talks, have done a wonderful job for two years, and with the support of President Clinton. So, I mean, there’s been a lot of energy and commitment put in.

Now, I would love to see in the Middle East the same kind of political will and commitment to getting the warring factions down around the table and saying, “This can be done. It’s been done in Northern Ireland, where people said it was impossible.” You know, Amy, if it can be done in Northern Ireland, which is a deeply complex situation here, it can be done anywhere.

AMY GOODMAN: Mairead Maguire, we’re going to speak more about the peace deal struck this weekend on Thursday on Democracy Now! But I wanted to ask you perhaps a completely unrelated question, though I’m sure you’ll be able to relate it. You, as a Nobel Peace Prize winner, have nominated Nobel Peace Prize winners today, Phil and Dan Berrigan, and you were in the United States recently, visited Phil Berrigan, who is in prison now in a federal penitentiary in Petersburg, Virginia, for hammering on a nuclear destroyer on Ash Wednesday last year. Now, the reason this is significant is because as a result of your visit, the penitentiary cracked down, because you protested there and refused to leave because of his incarceration, and they said he can’t see any friends and family for the rest of his incarceration, which is about a year. What is the latest you have heard on this? And why did you get involved in this case?

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Well, the why I got involved with in the Philip Berrigan case was that I was deeply inspired for many years by the American peace movement, and particularly by people like Philip Berrigan and Father Dan Berrigan in their strong stand against nuclearism and against war as ways of solving problems. And I think that in Northern Ireland, one of the most important thing in this Mitchell — Senator George Mitchell’s agreement is that it’s built on democracy and nonviolence, and it’s built on a clear recognition that ethnic political problems can’t be solved through militarism or paramilitarism. I mean, 30 years in the desert here in Ireland of tremendous suffering has proven that it doesn’t solve the problems. So, really, we adopt that same message and principle to dealing with world conflicts. We are now in a situation with more and more growing ethnic political problems that cannot be dealt with through militarism. You know, you can’t drop a nuclear bomb on what are growing ethnic political conflicts all over the world or racial problems.

So, I would — we took a stand here in Belfast against the U.S.A. and the British government using a military strike against Iraq, challenging them to use nonviolence and dialogue in solving the Iraqi crisis. We also took a stand against the implementation of economic trade sanctions, where six Iraqi children die every hour, and over a million Iraqi, mostly children and the vulnerable elderly, have died as a direct result of U.S. sanctions against Iraq. Now, that’s failed and immoral policy.

So, when I went to America, I had the great privilege of visiting Philip Berrigan. And I refused to leave the prison, my protest being against a military strike against Iraq, against American sanctions, and in support and solidarity with Philip Berrigan, who is himself speaking out against militarism, nuclearism and wars. And I just feel very deeply privileged I was able to visit him.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Mairead Maguire, I knew you would connect the two issues, you’d be able to connect the conflict in the North of Ireland with Phil Berrigan. And I want to thank you very much for joining us again. We will continue to discuss this issue on Thursday on Democracy Now! Mairead —

MAIREAD MAGUIRE: Well, I wonder: Could I just make one appeal, please, to the American people? Phil Berrigan is not allowed visitors for a year now as a direct result of what I did, when really it wasn’t Phil’s, anything to do with Phil. It was my choice. And I would like to say I’m hope — we’re looking forward to President Clinton coming to Northern Ireland and thank him for all he has done to help the peace process. But I would like to appeal to President Clinton to help restore Philip Berrigan’s rights. And actually, I’d like to appeal to President Clinton that Philip Berrigan should be released. He is, after all, America’s Gandhi, and I can’t understand what he’s doing behind bars.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Mairead Maguire, we will give out the number of the warden at the Petersburg, Virginia, Federal Penitentiary, where Phil Berrigan is incarcerated, later in the show. We did do a full show on Phil Berrigan, went down to the prison just a few weeks ago and interviewed him. And if people would like a copy of that program, as Phil Berrigan lays out his philosophy of nonviolence and anti-militarism, you can call the Pacific Archives at 1-800-735-0230. That’s for a cassette copy of the hour interview with Phil Berrigan. You can call 1-800-735-0230. Mairead Corrigan Maguire, I want to thank you very much for joining us, co-founder and president of Peace People, a group committed to nonviolence in bringing about social and political change in the North of Ireland. She won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1976 and is speaking to us from Northern Ireland, from Belfast. You’re listening to Pacifica Radio’s Democracy Now! We’ll be back in a minute.