AMY GOODMAN: You’re listening to Pacifica Radio’s Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman.

Two years ago, on December 10th, 1997, a 23-year-old preacher’s daughter climbed 180 feet into the branches of an old-growth redwood, determined to save it from a chainsaw. Since then, Julia Hill, known to her friends as Julia Butterfly, has changed her life. She’s also tried to change the way people look at California’s old forests, through an internet campaign and interviews with reporters around the world. This month, one more thing may be changing: She may be coming down from the tree that she’s lived in for the last two years and called Luna.

We’re going to go to Julia Butterfly in just a minute, but first we turn to Pacific Lumber, with whom she has been battling, as many environmentalists have for a number of years. Josh Reiss is a spokesperson for Pacific Lumber.

Welcome to Democracy Now!

JOSH REISS: Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, let’s start off by asking what the effect of Julia Butterfly’s campaign has been on Pacific Lumber.

JOSH REISS: To be perfectly honest with you, on our business, none. Look, Ms. Hill has been involved in a tree sit on our private property for the last two years. And we have and remain very, very concerned about her safety. She is 180 feet up in the tree. I don’t know if you’ve ever been to that part of California, but the winters there are very, very tough. And we’re very concerned about her safety.

And at the same time, we want her down, but at the same time, we are never going to agree to anything with Ms. Hill unless it addresses two very, very real concerns that we have. And they’re concerns that we’ve expressed to her and her representatives numerous times over the last two years. And they’re as follows:

First, we are never going to agree to anything if Ms. Hill gets out of the tree and then proceeds to participate in or encourage other members, particularly those in her — the movement Earth First!, of which we believe she is a member, to go back and tree sit on our private property. We’re not going to do that. We think it’s dangerous. We’ve had people gotten hurt on our property trying to do so. We think it’s unfair to our 1,300 employees. It’s something we’re not going to agree to.

And secondly, we are not going to agree to any arrangement with Ms. Hill which ends up turning into a commercial enterprise. You know, it has become — I think Ms. Hill has become concerned in recent weeks, because the press has started to realize that this may be becoming a commercial enterprise for her. She has a book deal. There are promotional videos and T-shirts for sale, which advocate tree sitting on Pacific Lumber’s property. There was a rally over the weekend in — near where she is engaging in her tree sit. And one of the people at the rally, who is a member of Earth First!, started yelling, “Tell them where the money went. Tell them where the money went.”

So, we have some very real concerns that need to be addressed. At the same time, there’s this young woman, who everybody respects the passion of within our organization, and we want her to be safe.

AMY GOODMAN: According to Associated Press, the proposed agreement would have Julia Butterfly and her supporters paying $50,000 to you, Pacific Lumber Company, owners of the property where Luna stands —

JOSH REISS: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: — the tree that she’s in, in return for a logging ban at the tree-sitting site. The money would then be donated to Humboldt State University for forestry research.

JOSH REISS: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: You also want signed statements from Julia that the company hopes will discourage copycat acts. Are these true? Are these the terms?

JOSH REISS: Look, unlike Ms. Hill, I’m not going to, you know, discuss on the record or, you know, leak information regarding what may or may not be on the table. But I think the question you have to ask is: If you are to believe what you read in the press, which is that the tree that she cares so passionately about is to be saved and there is to be a buffer zone, which is something she’s advocated for a while — if you are to agree — if you are to believe that, then why is she still in the tree?

And I think the only conclusion that a lot of people are beginning to draw is because it’s become some sort of commercial enterprise for her. I don’t know if any of your readers saw the Sacramento Bee editorial of last week. If they didn’t, I encourage them to look at it. And what it pointed out was, is they said, quote, “With every left day, this tree-sit is looking less purposeful and more commercial.”

And I think, you know, the fact that we were — we wanted these negotiations to be a private matter. For whatever reason, Ms. Hill or her representatives chose to tell the media that they were going on. And it opened up the floodgates, so to speak, in a way that we never expected. An individual in Humboldt County, where we have our facilities and our timber, has taken out full-page ads over the last week saying, “Don’t give in to Julia Hill, Pacific Lumber. Don’t give in to an ecoterrorist.” Our phone lines have been absolutely flooded with people supporting that position. We’ve gotten more calls along that line than we have letters and calls from her supporters in the last six to nine months.

So, there are two very, very different opinions here as to what should or shouldn’t be done. It’s a complicated matter that involves the environment, it involves jobs, it involves law enforcement, and it involves private property rights. And the bottom line is, we want Ms. Hill to be safe. She remains free to leave our private property at any time.

Now, in the recent weeks, she has described herself as a prisoner of war. A lot of people find that to be deeply offensive at Pacific Lumber. Prisoners of war are individuals who are captured by the enemy during wartime in service of their country. They’re not individuals who voluntarily decide to engage in a tree sit.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you mean by “ecoterrorist”?

JOSH REISS: A lot of people believe that Earth First!, of which, again, we believe she is a member — they are the group that organized her tree sit, that holds rallies on her behalf, that holds fundraisers on her to promote her tree sit — is an ecoterrorist organization. If you look at their website, they advocate positions such as green anarchy, visualize industrial destruction, developers go build in hell. It’s an organization that a number of years ago put spikes into trees so when that they would be cut, would harm the people, the honest, law-abiding people, who were harvesting those trees when they went into the mill.

AMY GOODMAN: Would you stand by calling Julia Butterfly an ecoterrorist?

JOSH REISS: I — you know, I don’t know whether she is or isn’t. I know, though, we believe that, you know, she had — she has a number of colleagues in Earth First! She may be a member of Earth First! herself. And they advocate a number of positions which the company does not believe in, nor do the people of Humboldt County believe in.

AMY GOODMAN: As a result of what has happened, the tree sit and the amount of attention it’s gotten, will Pacific Lumber change its practices? According to Julia, that there have been numerous violations. I believe she says more than 300 violations of the California Forest Practices Act.

JOSH REISS: Sure, look, you know, Ms. Hill went up in the tree for a number of different reasons, she says. She wanted to save old-growth trees. She wanted to save the Headwaters Forest. Well, the Headwaters Forest has been saved. The largest remaining stand of old-growth trees remaining in private hands in the United States has been purchased.

AMY GOODMAN: So, would you say her tree sitting has been a success?

JOSH REISS: Well, I don’t know whether she contributed to that or not. I think she added a voice to it. I’ll give her that.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you have some respect for her?

JOSH REISS: Everybody — you know, I don’t think there’s anyone in this organization that doesn’t have a respect for her passion about something that she holds very dear to her.

But there was something I wanted to mention, which you had talked about, as well, which were violations of the law and environmental protections on our property. As a result of the agreement we reached with the government early last year, we now have a remarkable set, the highest set, of environmental protections on our property of any timber company in that area of California. We have protections from marbled murrelets, coho salmon, spotted owls, buffer zones along streams, applying sound science to determine where we can and can’t harvest to prevent against things like mudslides and landslides.

As for the issue of environmental violations, were there a number in the last couple years? Yes, there were. That is not something we are proud of. We knew it was a problem, and we have put a lot of time and money and effort behind trying to get that — to do away with that problem. And I’m not quite sure of the specific number, but I think our violations this year have been reduced close to 90%

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Josh Reiss, I want to thank you for being with us, of Pacific Lumber, which is the company that owns the land where the old redwood that Julia Butterfly is sitting in stands. I wish you could have gone on with Julia Butterfly, but you wouldn’t go on at the same time. So we’re going to turn now to Julia Butterfly, who is 180 feet up in an ancient redwood that she calls Luna.

Welcome to Democracy Now!, Julia.

JULIA BUTTERFLY HILL: Thank you so much for having me.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, your responses to what Josh Reiss, the spokesperson for Pacific Lumber, has said?

JULIA BUTTERFLY HILL: Thank you for giving me the opportunity. I, too, wish that Josh Reiss would have gone live with me. When I held a press conference last week, it was only in the effort to try and get the truth as I understand it, and see it out to the world, because they have been spreading a lot of misinformation about me. One of the points Josh Reiss keeps making to me is a magnifying glass that Maxxam Corporation and Pacific Lumber are not doing a very good job of communicating with each other right now, because Josh Reiss is based with the Maxxam Corporation in Houston, Texas, and then is speaking on behalf of the people at Pacific Lumber. When he —

AMY GOODMAN: Maxxam took over Pacific Lumber, right?

JULIA BUTTERFLY HILL: That is correct, yes. The CEO of Maxxam is Charles Hurwitz, and he took over Pacific Lumber nearly 15 years ago. There — he — the point I was wanting to make — I’m sorry, it’s a little early out here — is that he has been saying that I leaked details to the press. I really was not interested in getting into a low-level mud-slinging match that the company has been engaged in in the last week. As many times before this happened in the two years I’ve been up in this tree, the company has said that I’m lying. And yet, I have proof that I’m not. The same with them saying that I brought it to the press first, that I leaked details first. I have documented proof that someone from within Pacific Lumber began leaking both the negotiations and the details of the negotiations into the press long — excuse me — long before I ever went public. I, too, recognized how controversial this issue is, and have done everything within my power to hear the concerns of Pacific Lumber Maxxam Corporation, address them to the best of my ability, and treat them with the dignity and respect that I would ask to be treated in return. And unfortunately, this last week, they have really gotten involved in trying to attack me and my integrity, and do so without giving me the fair opportunity to have my side heard, which is why I then held a press conference.

AMY GOODMAN: Julia, why do you — what do you feel you’ve accomplished over the last two years, on the second anniversary of your tree sitting?

JULIA BUTTERFLY HILL: I think the greatest thing that this tree sit has accomplished, number one, on a personal level, is that, above all else, I know that I can wake up in the morning and hold my head high, because I am living my truth and my belief to the best of my ability. And a friend of mine told me just a week or so ago, when all of this became public and it became very heated, he said, “Don’t worry, Julia. There’s an amazing thing about truth. It’s like a cork in the middle of the ocean, and no matter how hard they try and push it down, eventually it’s going to pop back to the top.” And I think that’s the most wonderful thing.

I think, second of all, has been that it has reached out into people’s consciousness and shifted the way they view the Earth and each other. Ultimately, it’s our choices that have gotten us to a point where a company is allowed to clear cut, dump diesel fuel and herbicide spraying onto the land, which poisons the land, the animals and the people. It is our choices that have led us to the point where 97% of the original redwoods are gone, and yet we are still allowing parts of the last 3% to be cut down. And it is our choices that are going to lead us back to a place of healing and restoration and in true sustainability. And for that, I think this tree sit has been successful.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Julia Butterfly, who is 180 feet up in a redwood tree, the tree about 15 feet across, more than 18 stories high. Tell us about the mudslide that occurred right near the tree. And that might go to the point about the issue of violations.

JULIA BUTTERFLY HILL: Absolutely. The reason this tree sit was begun is not only because this tree has been estimated to be over a thousand years old, but was actually begun because activists down in — that were staying down in the town of Stafford heard cutting on this hillside, right next to a mudslide that had originated on a logging road, and Pacific Lumber clear cut, went rushing down the hill. And by the time it was done, seven families’ homes in Stafford were completely destroyed, and numerous others were damaged. So, when the activists heard cutting happening on the hillside again, they were reasonably appalled and obviously appalled that the company would have not only such a lack of respect for the environment, but a lack of respect for people’s very lives. They hiked up this hillside and found that, indeed, the company was cutting directly adjacent to that mudslide. And that area is where Luna stands.

Josh Reiss said that he acknowledged the fact that I would like to see this over 1,000-year-old tree in a buffer zone protected, and said, “Well, why is she still up there?” I’m still up here because they have not agreed to protect this area. He also said that I’m up here for a commercial venture, which I think is quite sick and sad. I have given everything I have to give for the last two years. The only thing I have on a personal level to show for it is food in my belly and clothes on my back. And I wonder if I live in a society where I have to give up even that to prove how much I care about this issue. And I think it’s ironic that they’re trying to spin it and focus it on a movement making money, when, number one, if they did a little research, they would — and told the truth, they would notify the public that I am giving 100% of my proceeds from the book away. The book is about outreach. It’s not about money. It’s about outreach. And every aspect of this movement is about outreach.

AMY GOODMAN: And what is the name of your book?

JULIA BUTTERFLY HILL: The name of the book is The Legacy of Luna. It will be in stores in April. This company, Pacific Lumber Maxxam Corporation, has made millions of dollars off of the backs of workers, off of the environment and also violating the law. And I think it’s really, really sad that they’re now trying to twist it around and make it appear that I’m up here to make money, especially because there’s a lot easier ways than freezing through the winter to make money.

AMY GOODMAN: Julia Butterfly, I want to thank you for being with us, again, in a thousand-year-old giant redwood, her home for the last two years. And we said we’d go to Minneapolis, where a battle to save some trees was lost. We don’t have time. We will do that tomorrow, with a Mendota Dakota Native American.

That does it for today’s program. Democracy Now! is produced by María Carrión and David Love. Errol Maitland is our technical director. Special thanks to Dred Scott Keyes and Robert Knight. And happy birthday to Bernard White! I’m Amy Goodman. Thanks for listening.