AMY GOODMAN: You are listening to Pacifica Radio’s Democracy Now! I’m Amy Goodman.

South Korean President Kim Dae-jung is back in Seoul today following his historic summit in Pyongyang with North Korean leader Kim Jong-il. The South Korean president called the landmark accord he signed with the North on easing five decades of tensions a success. Kim Jong-il accepted an invitation to a follow-up summit in Seoul. The two leaders agreed to allow reunions of families, exchange long-term prisoners, promote South Korean investment in the North. Most significantly, the two agreed to work toward reunification. After the late-night signing in Pyongyang, the two leaders smiled broadly, shook each other’s hands vigorously and toasted each other with glasses of champagne.

Meanwhile, South Korea’s ambassador to the U.S. says American troops in South Korea will remain there for the indefinite future despite the summit.

We’re joined right now by two people to discuss the implications of this historic summit. Reverend Kiyul Chung is with us, general secretary of Korea Truth Commission on U.S. military massacres. And Tim Shorrock, a reporter with The Journal of Commerce, he’s reported on Korea for more than 20 years.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Reverend Kiyul Chung, your first response?

REV. KIYUL CHUNG: Right. The summit meeting, as the first historic event between two Koreas since 1945, set the fundamental, major passage towards the peaceful reunification, which has not been expected by outside peoples in the United States and in South Korea, in Japan, in other parts of the world. But the two leaders showed, right from the first meeting, to show to the world that the Koreans are saying “brothers and sisters” and “one Korea” and “We can do it.”

And I read this morning Washington Post, the article by Doug Struck. I think that article conveys the quite good, relatively good, than the past. But it is not really correct what it says, starting “North and South Korea step back from a half-century of confrontation.” It is really with the United States and with Korean people, not really North and South confrontation. And it is with U.S. and North Korea has not — haven’t signed a peace treaty, not with South and North Korea. And the media in the U.S. should mention it is the U.S. who needs to sit with North Korea and now come forward to support what two Korean leaders have agreed and pledged for reunification and peace, not interfering in any way to pose any stumbling blocks for what the Koreans have made in this historic meeting.

AMY GOODMAN: Tim Shorrock, you’ve reported on Korea for more than 20 years, lived there for a number of years. The Clinton administration officials, saying that they want to build on the progress at the Korean summit meeting, said last night they would announce within a week the lifting of a broad set of economic sanctions against North Korea, that were placed there 50 years ago this month, when it invaded the South. What’s your response to that?

TIM SHORROCK: Well, I hope they follow through. In 1994, when there was an agreement to end North Korea’s nuclear power program and move to a South Korean-style nuclear program to eliminate the possibility of them building nuclear weapons, the U.S. also issued broad relaxation of its embargo but did not come through on this, and this has caused tensions with North Korea.

I think that it remains to be seen what the United States is going to do here. I do notice today that the State Department spokesman, Richard Boucher, has said that he doesn’t see in this the seeds of anything that would change the possibility of a missile threat to the United States. The CIA, the Pentagon, others in Congress have been using this so-called missile threat from North Korea to build up our — this Star Wars concept, missile defense. And North Korea is kind of the bogeyman in this issue. And I think it’s a false bogeyman. I think the possibility of North Korea actually shooting missiles at the United States is slim to none. There’s been some photographs recently of these so-called missile sites, and they’re very — not very well developed. And I think that North Korea is being used by the United States as a way to expand its own military ambitions. So, I’m very concerned that the United States, as was just said, doesn’t jump on this and begin to support it. I think the support so far has been lukewarm.

Let me make one thing clear: I am not a reporter with The Journal of Commerce anymore.

AMY GOODMAN: Ah, right. You used to be.

TIM SHORROCK: I’m an independent journalist. Thank you.

AMY GOODMAN: In The New York Times today, it also says that the lifting of sanctions will have limits. Prohibitions on the sale of high-technology and dual-use goods, those that could be used for both civilian and military purposes, will remain in place as long as North Korea is still classified as a terrorist state by the State Department. The U.S. is also required by law to oppose financing to terrorist countries from the World Bank and the IMF. Administration officials said yesterday they hope that the North might, in coming months, make concessions that would get it off the terrorist list. What about this definition of a terrorist state, Tim Shorrock?

TIM SHORROCK: Well, again, I think it’s been used by the United States. I think there has been some incidents in not so much the recent past, but in the '80s in particular, that might have put North Korea in this category, but it's never been proved, for example, that they did shoot a South Korean airline jet out of the sky. These things have often been based on very flimsy evidence. I think to call North Korea a terrorist country at this point is a false definition. I haven’t seen any evidence of this occurring.

I do think we do need to get off the U.S. definitions of North Korea and look at the Korean definitions of unification. I was in Korea once as a college student in 1972, the first time North Koreans came to Seoul to have talks. And I was amazed by the response of people in the streets. People poured into the streets to see North Koreans. This was the first time this had ever happened. I had grown up there as a kid and had always had this image of people had this very deep fear of North Koreans. But people in Korea want their country unified. And you can see from the TV spots of people watching this summit how emotional it is. It’s just amazing for people to see the two leaders of their countries up there together holding hands, singing a song of national unification. And I think that we’ve got to look at Korea from the Korean perspective, not from the American perspective.

AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Kiyul Chung, the issues that have been agreed to — allowing reunions of families, exchanging long-term prisoners and promoting South Korean investment in the North — can you talk about each of these and what they mean? The reunion of families — how many families are we talking about here?

REV. KIYUL CHUNG: Ten million of the Korean families, between, you know, both sides, been separated since 1950, the Korean War. And the family reunion issues should be looked at from the point of — as Tim Shorrock made a good point, that the Koreans can bring their divided homeland to a reunified nation through peaceful and self-determined ways. But the Koreans have been blocked, have been deterred by outside forces for them to move to that direction.

When we look at the separated family issues as an isolated one from military and other structural issues, then we lose the point, such as the political — long-term political prisoners issues. People do not know that these people, 93 long-term political prisoners in South Korea last 50 years, served 2,893 years in jail. And we know that Nelson Mandela, the president — the former president of South Africa, served 27 years. But in South Korea, the average term in jail of these political prisoners were 33 years in jail.

AMY GOODMAN: Who are they, these North Korean political prisoners?

REV. KIYUL CHUNG: They’ve been accused as spies or the pro-communists and the communist sympathizers. And some of them, yes, came from North Korea and have been accused under this national security law. But it is significant, I’m saying, for the future. Both leaders agree that work on separate family reunion and on this, the long-term political prisoners, once this happens within foreseeable — the near future, it will be a sea of change in the politics of Korean lives.

But before I say that interrelated point to what — Tim Shorrock has made a very good point. Richard Boucher yesterday, and this morning, the quote in The Washington Post, it’s very divisive, his statement about this summit meeting. And when he said that — he said it’s great, the meeting, but he said U.S. officials cautioned against speculation on possible changes in overall North Korean policy or the U.S. defense posture in the region, saying — I quote — “Our commitment to the security of South Korea is very, very strong.” But it is out-of-touch statement, because neither leaders up in Pyongyang talked about any war talks or even any hostile statements. All they did was all conciliatory and brotherly talks and statements.

And again, it is clear, as we have seen last 50 years, that U.S. shouldn’t come to this historic moment as they have done, the divide-and-conquer approach, but supporting and respecting the Koreans’ decision and their pledges and their agreement in support of what, as Tim Shorrock mentioned, Korean terms of reunification. From that perspective, we should look at the family reunion and the political prisoners issues.

AMY GOODMAN: Tim Shorrock, what about the — well, the number thrown around most often is — 37,000 U.S. troops in Korea?

TIM SHORROCK: Well, there are 37,000 U.S. troops there, completely integrated into the U.S. military forward base structure in Japan, Okinawa, Korea. It’s basically one force that is there. And this is very important to the Pentagon.

It’s interesting. A couple weeks ago, there was, again, an article in The Washington Post which talked about the new Pentagon documents for the — planning documents for the next few years. And they’re saying, you know, the Pentagon is now training on Asia there. They’re focusing on Asia as the key area for future military strategy, maintaining its forward base structure there. And why is this? It says there’s two possibilities driving this. The first is a chance of peace in Korea. Before, it was a chance of war in Korea. Now American troops have to stay there because of peace in Korea. The second, of course, is the risk of a hostile relationship with China.

So, in the past, the American force structure was all based around the Soviet Union and the Cold War. The Cold War has ended. You would think that we would start talking about reducing forces, changing these Cold War relationships. Instead, we’re saying, “Let’s keep them right there and form them around this other enemy, so-called, China. And then the idea of peace in Korea means that we should be there to stabilize the country for some reason.”

I think this is the wrong way to go. I think that this agreement that the two leaders of North and South Korea, part of it was they decided to set up measures to prevent accidental war, which means they’re going to have a hotline and openings of direct military hotlines, communications, suspensions of mutual denunciation, acts of destruction and insurrection. This is part of the agreement. While we have — I don’t have the exact number. There’s 37,000 U.S. troops in Korea. Many of them are based right at the border. They’re known as tripwire soldiers, which automatically guarantee that America will be involved in any kind of war.

AMY GOODMAN: Tim Shorrock, we have to break for stations to identify themselves, but when we come back, we will wrap up the discussion. We’re talking to Tim Shorrock, a freelance reporter, formerly with The Journal of Commerce. He’s reported on Korea for more than 20 years. Reverend Kiyul Chung is general secretary of the Korea Truth Commission on U.S. Military Massacres. He also has just returned from a trip to Korea. You’re listening to Pacifica Radio’s Democracy Now! When we come back, we’ll finish up our discussion of the historic accord reached between North and South Korea. And then we’re going to start talking about secrets at Los Alamos, the hard disks that were lost or stolen. We’re going to talk about the treatment of Wen Ho Lee and how it compares to another person dealing with top security issues, John Deutch, the former member — the former head of the Central Intelligence Agency. Stay with us.

[break]

AMY GOODMAN: You’re listening to Pacifica Radio’s Democracy Now! The Exception to the Rulers. I’m Amy Goodman. Tim Shorrock and Reverend Kiyul Chung are our guests. Tim Shorrock, a reporter, has reported on Korea for many years. Reverend Kiyul Chung, general secretary of the Korea Truth Commission on U.S. Military Massacres. Tim Shorrock, you were just finishing up your thought on the historic accord reached by the two Koreas yesterday.

TIM SHORROCK: What I was saying was, part of this, there was an agreement to implement measures, such as opening of direct military hotlines to prevent an accidental war between North and South Korea. This is a perfect opportunity for the United States to begin what many experts here believe is possible, which is a beginning of a phased withdrawal of American forces from Korea. We have thousands of American troops right at the Demilitarized Zone between North and South Korea. These are there as tripwire forces, which means they automatically would be involved in any kind of war between North and South Korea. With this agreement, it seems to me that the United States has an opportunity to say, “Well, as this confrontation becomes less of a confrontation and the two Koreas move toward peaceful reunification and demilitarization of their relationship, let’s take those American tripwire forces and bring them south or bring them out of the country.”

This is a way to begin the change in American policy that’s long been needed, since the end of the Cold War, and also the fact that North Korea is far weaker economically than it has ever been. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the North Korean economy really went downhill, because it lost an important trading partner, and it lost access to inexpensive oil. The North Korean economy has been suffering, and, in fact, the country has been hit by a severe famine in recent years, that was probably the result of flooding. But a combination of factors has made its economy extremely, extremely weak, reduced the chances of it being able to sustain a war for more than two or three days. And I think, like we’ve been saying, this is an opportunity here. We must back the Korean people, the Korean governments, in their historic attempt to create peace between themselves, and use this as a way to end our Cold War military structure in Asia.

AMY GOODMAN: Reverend Kiyul Chung, talking about the U.S. impact on the Korean Peninsula, just the title of your group, Korea Truth Commission on U.S. Military Massacres, we had you on last week talking about two issues. One is a story almost no one has covered in this country, and that is what happened about a month ago, when a U.S. A-10 Warthog dropped six 500-pound bombs in a South Korean village, similar to what’s been happening in Vieques. It was an accident. They had to lighten the load in their plane. And they wiped out, it sounds like, or damaged more than 150 homes, injured a number of people. And then there’s the issue of the massacres during the Korean War. We know about No Gun Ri. The Associated Press did the Pulitzer Prize-winning investigation of U.S. soldiers opening fire on unarmed civilians. You have said that there are many other such massacres. What do you think? Do you think more information will come out after this historic accord?

REV. KIYUL CHUNG: Yes, very much so. In fact, several survivors from those alleged — the massacre victims will come to U.S. June 23rd and 24th, Washington and New York, having a press conference, and a 23rd, noon time, at Lafayette Park, in front of White House, there will be a huge rally, for the first time, by — participated by the victims and the survivors from Korea to call for immediate act to investigate those allegations of the U.S. military massacres of civilians during the Korean War.

You know, Amy, I read The Washington Post again, coming back to this point. It says, “Two Koreas Sign Conciliatory Accord.” You know, I dream to see, in the near future, U.S. and North Korea sign the peace treaty. And if that’s going to happen in the near future, then Korea will be then finally free and liberated, and reunification is right then there, because it’s been with U.S. and Korean people at war, and the reconciliation should come between American people — I mean, American government and with Korean people. These massacre issues come under this whole umbrella, this peace between U.S. and North Korea, peace between U.S. and Korean people as a whole. And I believe this historic summit meeting will open the door wider, the way wider to the peoples of American public and Korean people together come forward to bring the untold truth to be told now, not for the sake of occupation, but for the sake of true reconciliation in the future.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Reverend Kiyul Chung and Tim Shorrock, I want to thank you for being with us. Tim Shorrock, freelance reporter. Reverend Kiyul Chung, general secretary of the Korea Truth Commission on U.S. Military Massacres. Reverend Chung, if people want to get in touch with you, one phone number?

REV. KIYUL CHUNG: 202-297-3562. Call for any the question about June 23rd event in Washington and June 24 in New York.

AMY GOODMAN: Thank you very much. You’re listening to Pacifica Radio’s Democracy Now!, as we take up next the issue of secrets.