AMY GOODMAN: We turn now to Moscow and a piece by Scott Peterson and Fred Weir in today’s Christian Science Monitor on Russian outcry at loss of independent voice. A standoff is quickly escalating over the fate of NTV, Russia’s last independent nationwide television network. At stake, say NTV journalists and their supporters, are not only hard-won press freedoms, but freedom for all Russians. “The strategy is to fight,” says station news director Grigory Krichevsky. Managers at the station, whose coverage was often critical of the government, were fired on Tuesday in what Krichevsky describes as an illegitimate shareholders’ meeting called by the state-run natural gas giant Gazprom.

Police have declared the growing rally outside NTV’s offices in northwest Moscow illegal. A police attempt to enter the building at midday yesterday was repulsed. Secretary of the Union of Russian Journalists said, “We are witnessing the final stage of the state monopolization of the media. The authorities want to stifle all critical voices and ensure that only official information goes on to the formation of public opinion,” he said. He added, “Therefore, NTV is the last bastion of Russia’s free media. As it goes, so goes the country.”

Again, the piece by Fred Weir and Scott Peterson in today’s Christian Science Monitor. And Fred Weir joins us on the telephone right now from Moscow.

Welcome to Democracy Now! Welcome, Fred Weir.

FRED WEIR: Hi.

AMY GOODMAN: Hi. So, tell us the latest on what’s happening at these — at the TV studios of NTV and how significant NTV is in Russia.

FRED WEIR: Well, the [inaudible] news, and it probably will, will do so for several days, a collective of journalists have basically barricaded them inside — themselves inside their studio and refused to accept the new management. And they have rather good legal grounds. And they certainly have a lot of social support. There will be a rally on Saturday in Moscow, and we’ll gauge just how much the social support is by the number of Russians who turn out to support NTV, but it’s probably likely to be quite substantial.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined on the phone by Masha Lipman, a correspondent for Itogi magazine, which is part of the same media group as NTV. Can you talk about just how independent or not NTV is and how significant this protest is?

MASHA LIPMAN: NTV is the only national television network in Russia that is independent of the government. And this puts it in a unique situation of having a huge audience of about 100 million people, and at the same time not dependent on the state — or maybe these are the last days when it is not dependent on the state. NTV acquired public support and approval back in the days of the First Chechen War in late '94 and ’95, when it was the first television channel which covered the war as it evolved, with all its atrocities coming to people's homes. And at that time, it formed the attitude of the Russians to the Chechen War, the indignation over it, which eventually forced President Yeltsin to stop the war.

AMY GOODMAN: Explain what the natural gas giant Gazprom has to do with all of this, Fred Weir.

MASHA LIPMAN: It’s a very complex deal. NTV, its owner was indebted to Gazprom, which is a gas monopoly controlled by the state. And when the state took a decision — or, I think President Putin took this decision — to crack down on this independent channel, President Putin’s assistants decided to use this weakness of NTV, its debt, and it began to act against NTV, pressing on the gas monopoly to demand that all the debts be returned. To show that this was not a fair treatment of the TV channel, although, of course, debt must be paid, one of the state channels owes $100 million to the government, and this loan has been postponed for years. The state does not demand that its debt be paid.

AMY GOODMAN: What about, Fred Weir, Ted Turner and CNN? What role is he playing in this?

FRED WEIR: Well, first of all, I think that this week’s crisis was probably triggered by the likelihood that Ted Turner was going to come in, and Gazprom moved very quickly — and probably illegally — to seize control of management. If the reports are true, Turner has bought up some of the NTV shares, but he’ll be a minority shareholder. And in Russia, that really doesn’t matter much. It matters who controls management. And Gazprom moved to make sure that it’s their people who will control the management, and then they’ll finesse whatever Turner wants to do. But I suspect that at this stage, unless the takeover can be stopped, Ted Turner is pretty much irrelevant.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, his investment group, Ted Turner’s, was reported to include the billionaire financier George Soros?

FRED WEIR: Yes, yes. It’s kind of frightening to think of these guys as freedom’s cavalry coming over the hill, but all things are relative. And in Russia, it would really be helpful if some outside private investment came in to, in some sense, perhaps guarantee or pose a blockage to the total state takeover of this network.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, we’ve been reading for months about Media-MOST’s boss Vladimir Guzinski. Can you explain his position in all of this? Ultimately, has he been driven out of Russia as the government claims corruption?

FRED WEIR: You have to remember that all these guys are corrupt, in some sense. Everybody who built a business empire in Russia in the '90s did it in dubious ways, because there were no laws. There was no, you know, standard business practice. What Guzinski did, though, was he built the best professional media empire, one which — for reasons of his own. I mean, he didn't go the route of kowtowing to the state. He created quite a professional and, within the Russian context, objective critical network.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re talking to Fred Weir, who has a piece in today’s Christian Science Monitor. We’re also talking to his Russian colleague, Masha Lipman, who is a correspondent for Itogi magazine, which is part of the same media group as NTV. So, at this point, Masha Lipman, we are looking at how many people inside the studios, how many journalists. And then, what are the plans for outside? I understand a massive rally is planned for Saturday?

MASHA LIPMAN: Yeah, it’s very hard to tell at this point how many people there are inside. Of course, this is a huge television company, and lots of people are employed. We are talking at least hundreds of people. And the NTV reporters and editors and all other people, cameramen, are now joined by their colleagues, some of them shooting, some of them reporting, some of them just aim to show support. There are also — almost all the time or almost around the clock, there are some of the Duma deputies there, deputies, of course, coming from more liberal factions of the Duma.

Talking about the outside, I think this is where we see here a growing public support, something that Russia has not seen in a long time, a liberal crowd, people coming to protest against a crackdown on freedoms. A first rally in defense of NTV and its freedom was held on Saturday last week. And whereas about 1,000 or 2,000 people were expected by the organizers, in fact, some 15,000 came, which was quite a surprise. It looked like the Russian people were disillusioned in liberal values and that passivity is the dominant mood among the Russians, but what is going on on NTV now, this partial strike anyway, this is definitely protest that NTV reporters and editors are showing on the screen, having canceled all their programs except news. They resumed the programming now, but for over 24 hours they were showing nothing about news. I think this inspires a lot of people, and people began to come during the night, staying outside, saying that they will defend NTV should the new illegal and lawless proprietors come.

AMY GOODMAN: Just looking at the AP story about what’s happening all night at NTV — folks, not to be confused with MTV, we’re talking N, Nancy, TV — NTV’s journalists occupied their offices to prevent the new Gazprom-appointed director from entering the building, all day frazzled employees shuttled between impromptu meetings about NTV’s fate and sleeping at their computers. All entertainment programming was canceled. In between newscasts, the network flashed a short statement saying NTV protested the, quote, “illegal takeover.” On the bottom left hand of the screen, the familiar NTV logo was stamped over by the word “protest” in red. So, Fred Weir, what do you expect to happen right now? I mean, we covered extensively the Czech journalists who were protesting the appointment of a person who was inside the station. They made them managing director of the station. The Czech journalists took over. They ended up getting the support of the legislature. And ultimately, they won, saying that their media outlet was being threatened and that free speech was being threatened, as well. What about here? What do you expect to be the outcome?

FRED WEIR: I’m afraid we wouldn’t be seeing any outcome like that in Russia. And you should note that in Czechoslovakia, the move of replacing the director was technically legal. And nevertheless, the president and the Parliament realized that there was a greater social interest at stake here, and society mobilized, and the president intervened, I believe, in that case on the side of the journalists. In Russia, you wouldn’t see political power intervening. And in fact, it’s quite the opposite. Political power is manipulating these events, orchestrating them to ensure that NTV’s independence dies. The last hope, really, is that public opinion will mobilize, that the demonstrations will be large, that the world will take an interest and perhaps force Gazprom to back off. But that, I must say, seems very unlikely.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Masha Lipman, as a Russian journalist who is part of the whole NTV conglomerate, your final words?

MASHA LIPMAN: It is extremely important what will happen to NTV. I’m not very optimistic. I agree that public support is a main factor here. But what is certainly true is that local authorities all over Russia are now looking at what is going on at NTV and waiting whether the government, via state monopoly Gazprom, will be able to stifle the free word and the free voice there or not. If the authorities succeed, this will be a very bad signal sent to what is left of independent press in the region. The situation there has never been very good. And it will grow much, much worse. This will be a go-ahead to anyone who wants to suppress his local press, his local television stations. I’m thinking also about my own magazine and people who work here. We’re 70 people, and we very much believe, from what goes on now, that this may be our last issue this week.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you very much for being with us as we continue to report on the embattled studios of NTV and the extended, the related magazines like yours, Itogi. Thanks for being with us, Masha Lipman, a correspondent for Itogi magazine, part of the same media group as NTV. Also Fred Weir with us, an independent reporter in Moscow, also a correspondent for The Christian Science Monitor. His piece appears in today’s edition.

You’re listening to Democracy Now! When we return, we’re going to take a look at countries resisting President Bush’s harder line. We’ll be speaking with Noam Chomsky. You’re listening to Democracy Now! Stay with us.