AMY GOODMAN: You are listening to Democracy Now!, as we turn from India and the issue of terrorism to Afghanistan. More than a hundred U.S. soldiers swept through an alleged al-Qaeda training base in eastern Afghanistan on Monday, blowing up four cave complexes but finding no fighters and little information. The U.S. military says the mission was intended to discourage al-Qaeda and Taliban forces from crossing into the country from Pakistan, but some officials hinted the operation was, more than anything, intended as a show of American force before Afghan regional leaders meet next week to select a new national government.

U.S. officials say members of al-Qaeda and the Taliban may be plotting attacks to disrupt that meeting, known as the loya jirga, but some fear the loya jirga process has already been interrupted, and not only by the Taliban. The loya jirga has been marked by controversy and violence. There have been repeated reports of local power holders intimidating or bribing rivals to withdraw their candidacies. Eight delegates to the loya jirga were killed just in May alone.

Meanwhile, the interim leader, Hamid Karzai, won the support on Sunday of enough key allies to stay on as head of the government for the next two years. For days the interim cabinet and warlords from across Afghanistan had been haggling over the makeup of the government that will emerge from the loya jirga. All backed Karzai as the future leader. The backroom deals extending his rule suggests many of the most important decisions for the loya jirga are being made in private before the 1,500 delegates even arrive in Kabul.

We’re joined in our firehouse studio here in New York by Soraya Paikan, an Afghan woman who was elected to the loya jirga.

Welcome to Democracy Now!

SORAYA PAIKAN: Thank you for having me here with you. I’m very happy. You know, as you know, in our country, after a long war, now Afghan people, they hope they are celebrating loya jirga. Loya jirga is a big meeting, which is all of Afghan representatives coming together from different provinces. And they want to decide about their future and take an elected dear leader, and they want to bring a court system to our country.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And how were the delegates to the loya jirga chosen?

SORAYA PAIKAN: As you know, this loya jirga, it’s called emergency loya jirga. No, we are very happy because — you know, Afghanistan is war country, destroyed country. Afghan people, they want peace, and they want be relaxed, and they don’t want war before that, because that we are very happy. However, it’s just emergency loya jirga. No, we are very happy in our people, they elected their representative in different area, and we have other selected also some representative to the loya jirga. And women also, they were elected and also selected by people to their loya jirga

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Of the of the 1,500 delegates, about how many are women? Do you know?

SORAYA PAIKAN: As I know, 11 percentage of women of the delegation.

AMY GOODMAN: Eleven percent?

SORAYA PAIKAN: Yeah, 11%. And about 160 seats they gave to a woman. I think we will get more than 160 seats, because a lots of Afghan women, they elected theirself in different states and provinces.

AMY GOODMAN: Soraya Paikan, who is our guest, is chair of the Afghan Women Lawyers and Professionals Association, elected as a member of the loya jirga, is from Mazar-i-Sharif, a professor of international law at — is it Balkh University?

SORAYA PAIKAN: Yes, it was in Balkh University. Before Taliban, I was as a lecturer at the law faculty in Balkh University. After that, when the condition was not good, I escaped to Pakistan, and about 10 months I lived in Pakistan. After a change in situation, I turned back to Kabul. Now I’m working with our association, our association called Afghan Women Lawyer and Professional Association. I came here by supporting and assisting Equality Now organization. Really, a president of Equality Now organization, she support Afghan women. Last year I was member of the Brussels summit in Belgium. And we got —

AMY GOODMAN: That was the women’s summit in Brussels?

SORAYA PAIKAN: Yeah, yeah, at the —

AMY GOODMAN: Afghan women.

SORAYA PAIKAN: Afghan women leadership summit, yeah. And we got a lots of result. It was very useful and benefit for us.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: What do you make of the violence leading up to the summit and these delegates who have been assassinated? Is there any sense of where this is coming from? Is this continuing to be internal battles within of the various military chieftains in sections of Afghanistan, or are these reprisal attacks from the Taliban? Where are these assassinations coming from?

SORAYA PAIKAN: To the Brussels summit, Afghan women came from different areas, from different country. We get together to decided about our fate and future. We decided we come out with this result. We talk about human rights in Afghanistan, about education, about the health, yeah. And Afghan women, yes, they were very suffering by the attacks of Taliban in Afghanistan, because that we hoped at that time we can find a door, a window, to do our future and decide about our future.

AMY GOODMAN: But in terms of the loya jirga now, that is going to take place, and the violence, the targeting of some of those who are participating in the loya jirga, the assassinations, what is happening in Afghanistan now?

SORAYA PAIKAN: You know, still we have different factions in Afghanistan. Still they are with weapons. We hope, in transitional government after loya jirga, we have — we will have a good system, and we rebuild our governmental system, and if we get success, to disarmament and demilitarize different factions. Yeah, you know, when in a country, different factions, different parties, and they are with weapons, it will happen, any different things in that country.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Does it trouble you at all that despite this massive U.S. and British presence and occupation of the country, that so few of the Taliban or leaders of al-Qaeda — that most of them are still free?

SORAYA PAIKAN: As you know, now in Paktia we have a problem, and there are group of al-Qaeda there working. And as people and mass, they thought that, about al-Qaeda and Taliban, they just are changing their face, not — still there in Afghanistan. And we hope in the future they will not be in Afghanistan.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined on the phone by Sonali Kolhatkar, who is vice president of the Afghan Women’s Mission in Los Angeles, works with RAWA, the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan, and is a host of Pacifica station KPFK’s Morning Show. Sonali, your assessment of what is going on right now in Afghanistan?

SONALI KOLHATKAR: Well, of course, having not been to Afghanistan, my assessment comes from some of the research that I do, everything that’s available. And really there are a lot of reports coming out, just as you had mentioned, with violence and threats of violence wracking the loya jirga.

I think one of the biggest weaknesses of the loya jirga process as it’s set up right now is the inclusion of warlords who have histories of human rights abuses. These were U.S.-backed warlords, going back to the '70s, when they were hired to fight the Soviet Union. And men like Abdul Rashid Dostum, who is a pretty powerful warlord in Mazar-i-Sharif, he was elected to a tribal council even though leaders such as him were supposed to be excluded from this tribal council. And it really, I think, is a travesty to the issue of peace in Afghanistan to include these men, who we know are really the people controlling the whole process. They have the power, the money, the backing from the United States. And they are all working in concert to consolidate that power. Obviously they're going to work as hard as they can to keep that power. And so I think that is the biggest weakness.

Positively speaking, though, I think it is a tremendous gesture on the part of Afghan women. The manner in which they have been showing up to take part in the loya jirga really speaks volumes for how badly they want to be part of the process. And I think this is sort of the glimmer of hope. And the lady that you are speaking with today, I think, is just such an example of the enthusiasm with which Afghan women are wanting to be part of the process, wanting to take Afghanistan back to a place where they can live freely. And so I think that’s definitely a positive.

But my cynicism comes back, in that if these men, such as Dostum, etc., Burhanuddin Rabbani, are going to be part of this process, by its very nature, it’s going to be a flawed process. And then you have people like Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, the CIA’s darling, who in the '70s was given the bulk of the billions of dollars that the CIA spent, but the man is a lunatic, and he's threatening to really sabotage the process. And no one’s talking about the fact that 20 years ago he was backed and pushed to power by the United States. So, those are some of the things that I think are plaguing the whole loya jirga process. But on top of that, the U.S. is still bombing the country. There are still one or two reports coming out, and the country is still an absolute mess. People are starving.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, tomorrow we’re going to be speaking with Christian Science Monitor reporter [Philip] Smucker to talk about what the U.S. troops are doing in Afghanistan. But, Soraya Paikan, on that issue that Sonali has just raised of people like Dostum and Rabbani being involved in the loya jirga, what is your response?

SORAYA PAIKAN: Yes. Dostum and Rabbani, they elected theirself, yes. As I mentioned, different faction, they have weapon and they have money. In Afghanistan, it happened very quickly. People buy their — these kind of people, they buy their vote. And the people are very poor. And I know a lot of vote was buying by these factions.

AMY GOODMAN: Yet you still have faith in the process?

SORAYA PAIKAN: Yeah. No, as you know, we have lots of criteria in loya jirga, loya jirga commission, that who kill people, who violate human rights, these kind of people, they cannot be as a member of loya jirga or as a representative. No power has power — who has power and money, they can get success.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: You mentioned also that you spent some time in Pakistan, yet Pakistan played a major role, the Pakistani government, in the development of the Taliban and is still playing sort of a dual role in this whole process. How do you see the Pakistani government’s influence on everything that’s going on with the loya jirga and the democratization of Afghanistan?

SORAYA PAIKAN: As you know, Pakistan — Afghan people, they were very suffering by Pakistan people and by Pakistani systems. As I think our neighbor, still they don’t want Afghanistan be quiet. If not, why Gulbuddin’s powers and people, they are still in Pakistan [inaudible] their training? It is so terrible for Afghan people.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, I want to thank you for being with us. And we’re going to close out this segment, Soraya Paikan, who is a representative to the loya jirga of Afghanistan, is also chair of the Afghan Women Lawyers and Professionals Association. And we’ve also been talking with Sonali Kolhatkar, the vice president of the Afghan Women’s Mission, which is closely linked with the Revolutionary Association of Women of Afghanistan. She’s also a host and co-producer at KPFK’s Morning Show. And we’ll be back in 60 seconds with our next segment.