As the torture fallout unfolds, one of the two psychologists who helped create the CIA’s program has spoken out in his own defense. James Mitchell told Vice News the abuse of prisoners is preferable to the Obama administration’s ongoing drone war that claims civilian lives.

James Mitchell: “To me, it seems completely insensible that slapping KSM (Khalid Sheikh Mohammed) is bad, but sending a Hellfire missile into a family’s picnic and killing all the children and, you know, killing granny and killing everyone is OK, for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is, what about that collateral loss of life? And the other one is, is that if you kill them, you can’t question them.”

According to the Senate report, Mitchell and his partner, Bruce Jessen, received an $81 million contract to help design the CIA’s torture methods, including some of its most abusive tactics. They had no prior experience in interrogation.