AMY GOODMAN: President Biden has spared the lives of 37 of 40 federal death row prisoners. On Monday, Biden commuted their sentences to life without parole, just weeks before President-elect Donald Trump returns to the White House with a promise to restart federal executions.

In a statement, Biden said, quote, “I am more convinced than ever that we must stop the use of the death penalty at the federal level. In good conscience, I cannot stand back and let a new administration resume executions that I halted,” he said. Biden campaigned in 2020 on ending the federal death penalty and directed the Justice Department to issue a moratorium on federal executions, which they did.

Bryan Stevenson, the founder and executive director of the Equal Justice Initiative, praised Biden’s decision, calling it, quote, “an important turning point in ending America’s tragic and error-prone use of the death penalty,” unquote.

A Trump spokesperson, meanwhile, slammed the decision as “abhorrent.” There were 13 federal executions during Trump’s first term as president.

While Biden commuted the sentences of nearly all death row prisoners, there are three men who carried out mass killings who did not receive clemency: Dylann Roof, who killed nine Black parishioners at the Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, in 2015; Boston Marathon bomber Dzhokhar Tsarnaev; and Robert Bowers, who attacked Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue in 2018, killing 11 congregants in the deadliest antisemitic attack in U.S. history.

President Biden’s action comes after years of advocacy by civil rights and Catholic groups. Last week, he had a phone call with Pope Francis, who reportedly called for the sentences of death row prisoners to be commuted.

For more, we’re joined by two guests. In Washington, D.C., Sister Simone Campbell is with us. She’s the former executive director of the Network Lobby for Catholic Social Justice. She’s the recipient of the 2022 Presidential Medal of Freedom. And from Miami, Florida, we’re joined by Herman Lindsey, the executive director of Witness to Innocence, which advocates to end the death penalty. He was wrongfully convicted in 2006 in Florida, spent three years on death row before being exonerated by the Florida Supreme Court in 2009.

We welcome you both to Democracy Now! Herman Lindsey, let’s begin with you in Florida. First, respond to what President Biden has done.

HERMAN LINDSEY: I think what President Biden has done has been a great thing. It’s a great, historical moment. I know three other presidents has in the past commuted a death sentence before. No one has ever done it in such a mass capacity. But I think Biden’s act shows that leaders can be humane and bring humanity back into our justice system.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Sister Simone Campbell in Washington, D.C., you campaigned for a long time on this issue as the Network Lobby for Catholic Social Justice. Explain, if you understand, the decision that Biden made and what it took.

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Well, I think this was President Biden putting his conscience into action, that he had said back in 2020 that he opposed the death penalty, but it has taken this long for the commutation of these sentences, mostly because he couldn’t get Congress to act. That was where the roadblock is yet again, is that our country’s congressional function is not working. So he had to take this move to commute the sentences.

But I think the most important piece, for me as a person of faith, is that he shares that faith and put it into action in a pretty courageous way, to speak out about the needs of healing the criminal justice system, that too often is wrong and acts on behalf of our society, that is a travesty, and acts erroneously on our behalf. He took care of that for these individuals. I am so grateful for his courage in making that happen.

AMY GOODMAN: And, Sister Campbell, can you talk about the position of the Vatican?

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Well, Pope Francis has made it abundantly clear a couple of years ago in writing in the encyclical that he wanted the end of the death penalty. He started this year saying, “Let this year be the year that we end the death penalty in a global way.” And then his very specific conversations with President Biden about his role in being able to make a difference. I think it’s a tribute to all of those who worked on this issue that the pope was included in that campaign. His heart is the heart of life, of giving life wherever we are. And if we’re pro-life, then we need to be opposing the death penalty. That’s how we stand together.

AMY GOODMAN: On Monday, Democracy Now! reached Cantor Michael Zoosman, a former prison chaplain, co-founder of L’chaim! Jews Against the Death Penalty. He responded to the news of Biden commuting 37 of the 40 death row sentences.

MICHAEL ZOOSMAN: On behalf of the 3,700-plus members of L’chaim!, which means “to life,” L’chaim! Jews Against the Death Penalty, we applaud President Biden for commuting and saving the lives of 37 human beings. And I can say without equivocation that we stand against the death penalty in every single case, without exception. And that includes the shooter of the Tree of Life synagogue, and that includes the others in line for state killing on federal death row and on military death row. We believe, as did Elie Wiesel, who was a Holocaust survivor and the founder, in principle, of our group, that no civilized society should be at the service of death. And so, we believe that President Biden still has a chance to do the right thing and commute that sentence.

AMY GOODMAN: If you can respond, Sister Simone, to exactly what he said?

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Well, I think his point that the death penalty should not exist, period, and that the three remaining federal prisoners on death row should also be commuted — quite frankly, life is life, death is death, and we choose life as people of faith — I agree with him. But I am so relieved that 37 of the 40 have been — have had their sentences commuted. It still is a painful reality that three remain. But that we have made progress, it’s a step forward. But we have more to do, especially now at the state level. We need to extend life in all situations and make sure that we are a people that values all life.

AMY GOODMAN: And then you have four men in military death row, Sister Simone.

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Oh, yes. I mean, the thing that was new to me in this work was how many different death rows there are. I just thought there was a federal death row that we needed to address, and then to find out that even in the military, there is a — that is allegedly for our protection, we also have four people on death row. That is a painful reality that we should not allow to continue, but it does.

AMY GOODMAN: Herman Lindsey, can you talk about your own life experience? You’re now executive director of Witness to Innocence, which advocates for the end of the death penalty. You yourself were on death row for three years before being exonerated by the Florida Supreme Court. Explain what happened.

HERMAN LINDSEY: My case was one of the basic cases that happens around, while I was a young guy that was able — with a criminal record that was easily to be convicted in this case, was prosecuted horrendously on me. It was based on a guy’s statement who turns out to be one of the prime suspects, and the Florida Supreme Court feel like he has some actual involvement in the case.

But my experience on death row was an experience of uniqueness. And it helped me grow tremendously in life and opened my eyes in life, because when I first went on death row, I was scared, because it was like everybody pictured them as these monster people and, you know, people with big psychological problems, but when I got on death row and I actually got to know these guys and we all became like family, you know, I realized that it is rehabilitation in these people, and these people can teach a lot of people in prison a whole lot of things to help the ones that do return to the streets how to maintain and how to deal with things, especially trauma, without coming back to prison.

AMY GOODMAN: I think the figure is, what, one in eight people on death row have been exonerated. Is that right?

HERMAN LINDSEY: Yeah, about that number. Here in Florida, it’s a little bit — the number changes a little bit, because we lead the nation in the most exonerations. We lead the nation with 30.

AMY GOODMAN: Talk about Florida, because, as Sister Simone Campbell just said, there are so many death rows in the United States. But you’ve got the federal death penalty, and that, President Biden had put a moratorium on and now has granted clemency to the men — well, has commuted their sentences to life without parole. But then there’s the death rows in which thousands of people are on throughout the United States, on state death row.

HERMAN LINDSEY: And I think those death rows are used in more of a political tool, because I am a firm believer that death is not a punishment. You know, I grew up. When I lost a pet, when I lost a friend, my mom would tell me, “It’s OK. They’ve gone off to a better place.” Death is not a punishment. But most politicians use death to say — to put the fear into people and use it as a voting tool. But the death penalty around the United States, it differs in each state. So, when we’re talking about death penalty, you have to understand that the difference is the person who’s over that state — for instance, DeSantis. I wish DeSantis would commute the row in Florida, you know, but because he’s running on a tough-on-crime case, I feel like it is hard for him to do that. And that’s because it’s a political tool, like for Trump executing them 13 people, you know, right before his elections. You know, we hadn’t had executions for 17 years. It’s used as a political tool.

Death is not, no way, decreasing violence or is in no way giving anybody closure. You know, closure comes in the justice at the time that a person is apprehended. You apprehend someone for committing the crime. That is closure to the family, instead of that person running around, not the death penalty.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the racial disparities on death row, Herman? If you’ve got — in this case, of the 37 men whose sentences were commuted, 15 are white, 15 are Black, six are Latino, and one is Asian. Talk about it nationwide.

HERMAN LINDSEY: Well, nationwide, it differs. It depends on each state. For instance, Florida is majority Black. If you go to Texas or California, the majority is Latinos. You know, it all depends on the actual area, the actual state that you’re in, that the racial changes. But here in this situation with the federal, I think that the racial was kind of balanced a little bit. You know, I don’t see racism playing a part in that federal standard. But in the state standard, you see racism playing a part in many different ways.

AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you about the three men who remain on federal death row. They are Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, convicted in the 2013 Boston bombing, Boston Marathon bombing; Dylann Roof, who was convicted in the mass shooting of the nine Black parishioners at Mother Emanuel AME Church in Charleston, South Carolina, that was 2015; and Robert Bowers, who attacked Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life synagogue in 2018, killing 11 Jewish worshipers in the deadliest antisemitic attack in U.S. history. Why do you believe, Herman, that they should have also had their sentences commuted?

HERMAN LINDSEY: I believe that, because, you know, like I say, I believe in human life. I believe in humanity. I was reading an article where Trump said it’s a slap in the face to the victim. Actually, I think by you executing them, it’s a slap to the face of the victim, because if you execute them, that relieves them from all consequences of what they have done. What people don’t understand is that when you are in prison — you know, when you’re in prison, you have to take time out to think about what you have done. You have to think about you can’t be there for your loved ones. You have to think about is your child writing you or are your child mad. It’s so many things that you have to think about that is very traumatic to yourself when you’re in doing time. And to just pull them in one day — and they try to make it where you can execute more faster, but to actually bring that person in and execute them is like relieving them from any sentence that they had imposed on them.

And something to think about is this, and I like to say this: Suppose that you had a loved one that got murdered, and you taught that loved one that when someone passes away, they go off to a better place. And then you turn around, you’re sitting at home and you’re watching TV, and that person’s soul comes to you and say, “Hey, what happened to the person that killed me?” And you turn around, and you tell them, “Well, we executed them.” And then the person actually — the victim actually goes, “So that means you sent them off to a better place?” I mean, if you actually think about it, you know. And even those that committed those horrendous crimes, I think they need to be evaluated so we can understand why they committed this, what made them trigger, so we can understand to put a resolution to preventing these type of things from happening. But just exing them out and killing them is not the answer.

AMY GOODMAN: Sister Simone Campbell, finally, Trump executed more prisoners than the last 10 presidents combined when he was president. Now he promises to expand the death penalty. How is the Network Lobby for Catholic Social Justice and other groups responding and mobilizing for his second term?

SISTER SIMONE CAMPBELL: Well, as on so many issues that need to be addressed in this second term, the mobilization is quite strong. I think it’s buoyed up by President Biden’s choice for life in this situation. And the fact is, there will be demonstrations.

But I think what your listeners need to understand is that those 13 executions were done in the last six months of his presidency. And as was said, it was done as a political stunt, not as an element of the justice system. So, what we — the whole movement will continue to push at the state level and to ensure that federal law changes, so we do not get in this situation again. We have to change federal law, state law, and commute the sentences at the state level. We have a lot of work to do.

AMY GOODMAN: Sister Simone Campbell, former head of the Network Lobby for Catholic Social Justice, and Herman Lindsey, executive director of Witness to Innocence, which advocates to end the death penalty. He was convicted in 2006 on Florida death row for three years before being exonerated by the Florida Supreme Court in 2009.

Next up, we look at the damning House ethics report on former Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz, Trump’s first pick for attorney general. Stay with us.