AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, “War, Peace and the Presidency: Breaking with Convention.” We’re broadcasting from Milwaukee, from the Republican National Convention. I’m Amy Goodman.

Ohio Senator JD Vance is preparing to make his first speech tonight after being tapped by Donald Trump as his running mate. Vance will headline the Republican National Convention tonight.

On Tuesday, ProPublica published a newly uncovered 2021 speech Vance made a year before he was elected to the Senate. The video shows Vance addressing an invitation-only group of young conservatives. The chair of the group is Leonard Leo. This is part of what JD Vance said.

JD VANCE: If you listen to Alex Jones every day, you would believe that a transnational financial elite controls things in our country, that they hate our society, and, oh, by the way, a lot of them are probably sex perverts, too. Sorry, ladies and gentlemen, that’s actually a hell of a lot more true than Rachel Maddow’s view of society.

But then the second criticism that I get is, “Well, he’s a crazy conspiracist,” right? “He doesn’t believe that 9/11 actually happened, or he believed 9/11 was an inside job.” And, look, I understand this desire to not be called terrible names. It’s like, “Yeah, OK, this person believes crazy things.” But I bet if you’re being honest with yourself, every single person in this room believes at least something that’s a little crazy, right? I mean, I believe the devil is real and that he works terrible things in our society. That’s a crazy conspiracy theory to a lot of very well-educated people in this country right now, even though, of course, they participate in it without knowing about it, but that’s a separate — a separate matter.

AMY GOODMAN: During the same 2021 speech to the Teneo Network, JD Vance talked about the billionaire tech investor Peter Thiel, who would go on to spend over $10 million to help Vance get elected to the Senate in 2022.

JD VANCE: Ladies and gentlemen, the most important truths often come from people who are crazy 60% of the time, but they’re right 40% of the time. I don’t know Elon Musk very well. I know him a little bit. I’ve had a couple of private conversations with him. Elon Musk believes some crazy stuff. I’m very close friends with Peter Thiel. I think Peter Thiel is one of the most important sources of nonconventional truth in our society. Peter Thiel believes some things that are considered crazy by opinion makers. We have to get away from this weird tension that we feel in our chest when somebody says, “This person believes something crazy, therefore you must denounce them.”

AMY GOODMAN: That was JD Vance speaking in 2021. He was elected to the Senate in ’22. That video obtained by ProPublica and Documented.

Joining us now is Andy Kroll, the investigative reporter for ProPublica. His new piece is headlined “In Private Speech, J.D. Vance Said the 'Devil Is Real' and Praised Alex Jones as a Truth-Teller.”

Tell us more about what you found.

ANDY KROLL: Well, we got this video of this 30-minute speech and set of question-and-answer period with then-candidate JD Vance, now senator and VP designate, nominee JD Vance, that really gives this unvarnished look into what JD Vance believes and into what he says to an audience of his peers, people he sees as leaders, future elected officials, future business people, but all from the conservative movement.

We hear him talk about how he believes Tucker Carlson is a leader or possibly the leader of the conservative movement. We hear him, again, say that Alex Jones is someone who is a truth-teller, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is someone who is a nonconventional person who should be defended by conservatives. You really get a sort of rare look at Vance, unvarnished, unfiltered, because, again, this was an invitation-only event. There was no press. This was all friends and like-minded conservatives.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to the next clip, back to more of what Ohio Senator JD Vance said, before he was senator, in this private 2021 speech to the Teneo Network.

JD VANCE: For a long time, I’d like to say, a lot of us have been talking about this problem, but it’s really been a few of us over the past few years who have recognized that the big corporations have really turned against conservatives in a very big and powerful way. And we see this in a number of different ways.

One is, recently, this Texas abortion law. OK? Texas tries to pass a law that protects the right of the unborn to live their lives. And set aside the legal technicalities about whether that law is ultimately going to survive legal challenges. I don’t know. I went to law school, but I’m not — I went to Yale Law School, so I’m not a very good lawyer. But the fundamental problem revealed itself because virtually every major big corporation in this country felt the need to issue a statement in support of not the unborn babies, but in support of people who might want to abort them. A few major corporations actually put a lot of money behind the effort to make it easier to achieve an abortion. And the one CEO that I’m aware of, a medium-sized tech company who actually spoke up on behalf of the unborn, was fired three days later, after he issued a statement.

Like, if we’re unwilling to make companies that are taking the side of the left in the culture wars feel real economic pain, then we’re not serious about winning the culture war. And so, that is — that is challenge number one.

AMY GOODMAN: So, again, that’s JD Vance in 2021, just before he’s elected to the Senate for the first time in 2022. Now in 2024, as a 39-year-old former marine, he has been tapped to be the vice-presidential running mate of President Trump. Talk about the significance of what he says here on abortion, Andy Kroll.

ANDY KROLL: Well, it’s significant on a few levels. One, it is a window into his thinking that somehow the largest corporations in America have been captured by the, quote-unquote, “woke left” or by political correctness. We’re supposed to believe that Amazon or Walmart or UnitedHealth or any of these — ExxonMobil, any of these major corporations are somehow agents of the Democratic Party or the left, which doesn’t really hold up to scrutiny.

But the more interesting part is what he says at the end, when he says we need to make these companies feel pain if they engage in these culture wars. And I think that gives you a glimpse into how he thinks as an elected official and how he might think and act as a vice president, if this ticket is elected: We need to make these corporations feel pain. Well, they’ll use the levers of government, in theory, to do that.

AMY GOODMAN: Let’s go back to Alex Jones. For people who are not familiar with who he is and the significance of the comparisons he was making between Rachel Maddow and Alex Jones, talk about his record.

ANDY KROLL: Alex Jones is the most notorious conspiracy theorist in America. He rose to prominence promoting conspiracy theories that 9/11 was a government cover-up or an inside job. He spread conspiracy theories about vaccines, conspiracy theories about a, quote-unquote, “New World Order.” I mean, he is America’s conspiracist-in-chief.

His lies have caught up with him. In recent years, his claims that the Sandy Hook school shooting was a hoax, false flag, led to court judgments against him totaling $1.5 billion — with a “B,” $1.5 billion — brought by the families of the victims of Sandy Hook. So, he has been made to quite literally pay.

And yet JD Vance is saying this is someone who speaks truth, this is someone who we should defend, even if he has nonconventional or unconventional ideas. And I really think that is an important piece of information to understand about this running mate.

AMY GOODMAN: I just want to be very clear on Sandy Hook. He is contending something that the parents wish was true, that this massacre wasn’t real, that those murdered children were not murdered, that they’re somewhere else, and their parents are actors?

ANDY KROLL: Right, the parents are actors. There was a larger plot at work to use this, quote-unquote, “fake tragedy” to seize people’s guns or curtail their Second Amendment rights. Of course, none of that is true. Courts in Texas and Connecticut ruled against him in a very aggressive way and, again, issued these judgments totaling a billion-and-a-half dollars, that the parents and their lawyers are now chasing Alex Jones in. Alex Jones may not end up with an Infowars media company or any of his other properties by the end of this judicial process. So, again, this is the person that JD Vance is saying that conservatives need to stand up for.

AMY GOODMAN: And how did you get a hold of this tape? And how has the Trump-Vance ticket responded?

ANDY KROLL: So, we obtained the tape, our reporting partners Documented and I, as part of a larger reporting project on the Teneo Network. This is a group chaired by Leonard Leo, the legal activist on the right, that is trying to basically replicate what Leo did for the judicial system, which is to say, loading it with conservative originalists and textualists to try to create that pipeline, but in every other area of American life. He wants to do to finance and education and media what he’s done to the Supreme Court.

Leonard Leo responded to us for this story and said JD Vance is and — has been and continues to be a member of the Teneo Network, which is an interesting connection for this presidential ticket. The Trump campaign did not respond to the story. We’re still hoping that they will, but nothing as of now.

AMY GOODMAN: Andy Kroll, tell us about Peter Thiel.

ANDY KROLL: Peter Thiel is a fascinating character. Peter Thiel, obviously a sort of techno-libertarian, definitely someone who has propagated a number of sort of strange, idiosyncratic ideas. He was a supporter of Donald Trump’s in 2016. He was a mentor to JD Vance when Vance was a tech investor, a member of the Silicon Valley elite. And then, when Vance ran for Senate in 2022, Thiel was a donor and a big supporter of his.

And what’s really interesting now is this question of: Will Peter Thiel, who has been really on the sidelines of this presidential campaign — will he come off the sidelines now that his protégé is Donald Trump’s running mate? And that’s something that we’re certainly looking into with our reporting.

AMY GOODMAN: Peter Thiel took down Gawker.

ANDY KROLL: Yeah, took down Gawker, exactly, with the help of Hulk Hogan, in a case that I think, you know, gave chills to all of us who believe in a free and independent media.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to go back to one more clip from this tape that you uncovered to the Teneo Network by JD Vance, just a year before he was elected for the first time to the Senate, speaking in 2021.

JD VANCE: Challenge number two is just basic truth-telling. We live in a society that is terrified to tell the truth. And it takes a number of different forms. On the left, people are terrified to actually point out the obvious, that men and women are different, that they want different things, at least as an average matter, and that there are real biological, cultural, religious, spiritual distinctions between men and women. I think that’s what the whole transgender thing is about, is, like, fundamentally denying basic reality.

AMY GOODMAN: So, again, that was JD Vance. Talk more about the significance of what he’s saying here.

ANDY KROLL: I mean, it’s a — the statement, in some ways, speaks for itself, denying that transgender Americans, frankly, or transgender people anywhere, just exist, period, that that identity, that their experience is not real, is not legitimate. And I think for anyone who is transgender, supports transgender rights, ability to access healthcare, gender-affirming care, you should probably know that JD Vance has taken this position, and taken this position quite clearly. It doesn’t put him out of step with the rest of the Republican Party, frankly, but it does show, in the most unvarnished way, where he stands on the issue of trans rights and trans healthcare.

AMY GOODMAN: I mean, also on the issue — well, last night, we were on the floor all night of the Republican National Convention. One of the people who spoke was the Montana senatorial candidate Tim Sheehy. And he got up —

ANDY KROLL: Yeah, I was on the floor for that, too.

AMY GOODMAN: Right — and said, “I am Tim Sheehy. That’s right, those are my pronouns.”

ANDY KROLL: Right.

AMY GOODMAN: More often people, delegates, are saying on the floor, “U.S.A., those are my pronouns.”

ANDY KROLL: I mean, it’s classic culture war reactionary commentary. I think I heard maybe Sheehy or someone else say — end their speech with, “Boys are boys. Girls are girls. This is America,” to, you know, roaring applause from the audience. I mean, this position on trans Americans and trans rights is clearly something that is both, I think, at the forefront of this election, but also just in the air, a platform-wide position by Republicans in 2024.

AMY GOODMAN: Speaking of what’s in the air, I wanted to go to what was on the floor of the Republican National Convention last night. We were there talking to people. I spoke with Arizona delegate, state Representative Alexander Kolodin. I caught up with him just after he was heckling Nikki Haley as she took the stage to express her unity with President Trump. At first, the Arizona delegate was cordial.

AMY GOODMAN: What do you think of Nikki Haley being up there? It was a little shocking, wasn’t it?

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: It was shocking. I’m glad that she did what she should have done a long time ago, which is drop out and endorse Donald J. Trump for president. … I think people like her are poison within the blood of the Republican Party, that they want to coopt this party to use it to line the pockets of their defense contractor buddies at the risk of incinerating our children in nuclear war. They are disgusting and reprehensible, and they need to go away.

AMY GOODMAN: And what do you think about what happened on January 6th? And particularly talk about Arizona.

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: In Arizona?

AMY GOODMAN: In Arizona, the election, and what position you took on it.

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: Who are you a reporter for?

AMY GOODMAN: I’m a reporter for Democracy Now!

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: Ah!

AMY GOODMAN: Do you know Democracy Now!? It’s a daily —

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: I have heard of you guys.

AMY GOODMAN: — news hour and radio show.

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: Yeah, I think that you guys have lost your privileges to talk about January 6th after you tried to assassinate our president. I’ll leave it at that.

AMY GOODMAN: Excuse me?

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: You said it. You guys have — you, Democrats, you have lost your privileges — 

AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy —

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: — to go on and on and on — I know who Democracy Now! is — to go on and on and on and on about January 6th, when you literally tried to shoot our president. Right? First you tried to throw him in jail. Then you called him a fascist. Then you literally tried to strip his Secret Service protection from him. And then you tried to use the deep state to kill the guy. So, yeah, you’ve lost your privileges to talk about January 6th. And that’s all I’m going to say on that matter.

AMY GOODMAN: So, would you talk about it? What do you think about it?

REP. ALEXANDER KOLODIN: I think you should stop trying to kill our president. I think you should stop trying to indict him and throw him in jail and deprive the American people of a choice. If you say you’re Democrat, stand for democracy and allow the American people to have a real choice.

AMY GOODMAN: With that, Arizona delegate and state Representative Alexander Kolodin stormed away. It turns out he was active in attempting to overturn the 2020 election and also represented Arizona Congressmember Paul Gosar and other connected lawmakers tied to the January 6th insurrection. It was not clear if he knew we were Democracy Now!, public television and radio. Not clear exactly what he was saying. But on Sunday, Kolodin did tweet, “The CIA/FBI got rid of JFK and are trying to get rid of Trump. What do these two men have in common? They took on the deep state and tried to restore the Republic.” Your response, Andy Kroll?

ANDY KROLL: Well, I’m troubled to hear a delegate and, I believe you said, an elected official in Arizona — I’m just going to, from listening to that, take that he understood that you were a reporter, independent media. The fact that he is pointing the blame at journalists doing their jobs, just asking questions, for the attempted assassination of Donald Trump is quite disturbing. And frankly, it’s not the first time I’ve heard this this week. I just watched a video this morning of Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene very clearly talking to a reporter from The Times U.K. and saying that it was the media that deserved blame for this assassination attempt on former President Trump. Of course, we don’t know the background, the motives, anything about the actual shooter in this case. But the fact that this is another elected official at this convention who is trying to push this notion that media is to blame for this horrific incident is a deeply troubling thing to hear. And the conspiracy theories — I’ve written a lot about conspiracy theories — in some ways, those are familiar to my ears. I mean, people like this Arizona delegate are a dime a dozen, unfortunately, with these kind of claims. But it’s this most recent claim of his about the shooting in Pennsylvania that I think is a dangerous, dangerous thing to be saying.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to turn to another issue, Andy Kroll, and ask you about the Supreme Court. President Biden is reportedly preparing to endorse major changes to the nation’s highest court, including establishing term limits and an enforceable code of ethics. Biden is also reportedly considering a call for a constitutional amendment that would eliminate broad immunity for presidents and other officials. Andy, you and other reporters at ProPublica have reported extensively on ethics issues involving Supreme Court justices. Can you talk about this latest news?

ANDY KROLL: The president is trying to do what some of his Democratic colleagues in the Senate have been demanding for more than a year now, which is, number one, some kind of ethics code for the Supreme Court that has teeth, that is enforceable. As we saw last year, the Supreme Court, in response to the reporting that we did and some others did, introduced the first ethics code in the history of the U.S. Supreme Court. But, as we pointed out immediately afterward, that ethics code has no enforcement mechanism. It is self-enforcing, which, as we’ve seen from the behavior of Justices Clarence Thomas, Scalia, when he was alive, Alito, this self-enforcing notion does not work with the Supreme Court. And we shouldn’t expect it to.

President Biden’s reported proposal would be an ethics regime that would be enforceable, and also term limits. Senators have already introduced a bill that would introduce an 18-year term limit and create a sort of rolling process for the justices to go on and off the court. But this bill — or, this plan that we’ve been talking about, it faces long odds in Congress, where it would require approval, with supermajority in the Senate, slim Republican majority in the House. That is a very tough path to take. But it is, on some level, encouraging that the president has seen the reporting that we’ve done and others have done, and decided that some kind of reform is necessary, because, clearly, it is, from what we’ve reported and other have done.

AMY GOODMAN: Andy Kroll, I want to thank you so much for being with us. Andy Kroll, investigative reporter for ProPublica. His recent book is titled A Death on W Street: The Murder of Seth Rich and the Age of Conspiracy. We’ll link to his new piece for ProPublica, “In Private Speech, J.D. Vance Said the 'Devil Is Real' and Praised Alex Jones as a Truth-Teller.”