AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, “War, Peace and the Presidency: Breaking with Convention.” I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Well, in addition to the protests on the streets, dozens of delegates with the “uncommitted” movement are also in Chicago as they continue to pressure Kamala Harris to halt U.S. military support for Israel’s war on Gaza. The delegates represent states where some 700,000 people cast uncommitted votes during primary elections to protest the Democrats’ pro-Israel policies.

For the first time ever, the DNC is hosting a panel on Palestinian human rights. The uncommitted delegates welcomed the move and are continuing to request that Dr. Tanya Haj-Hassan, who has volunteered in Gaza, be permitted to address the convention from the stage.

AMY GOODMAN: Top Democrats have spent weeks meeting with uncommitted voters and their allies, including a sit-down between Harris and the mayor of Dearborn, Michigan, Abdullah Hammoud, in an effort to respond to criticism in key swing states like Michigan, which has a significant Arab American population. Harris’s campaign manager Julie Chávez Rodríguez Thursday held several one-on-one meetings with leaders of the Arab American community, uncommitted movement in metro Detroit, among them, Osama Siblani, founder and publisher of The Arab American News, the largest and most widely circulated Arab American publication in the United States. He’s based in Dearborn, Michigan, where he joins us from today.

Osama Siblani, welcome back to Democracy Now! Can you talk about that meeting you had with Julie Chávez Rodríguez, one of the campaign managers for Harris, had been for Biden, the granddaughter of Cesar Chavez, what you had to say to her and how you feel the Harris-Walz campaign is responding to your concerns?

OSAMA SIBLANI: Well, first of all, good morning, Amy, and thank you for having me on your program again.

Yeah, this is not the first time I met with Julie. Actually, I did meet with her in January of this year when she was managing the campaign of President Biden. And we met in my office for two-and-a-half hours. And we’ve had a good discussion, and it was frank. And I met her again Thursday, last Thursday, and now she’s managing the Harris campaign. And we met, and we talked for about an hour, and it was a frank and straightforward discussion. It was the same discussion. And I told her that it’s true that the Democratic Party changed horses, but we’re still seeing the same jockey — that is, Benjamin Netanyahu riding these horses all the way, you know, in the same direction, doing the same thing.

You know, I’ve been listening to the program, and I’ve listened to the demonstrators. And all of them, they are right on the point. They have made a very good case. I would say that they have represented everything that we believe in, everything that we have said.

Between January and between Thursday, we have met several times senior leaders from the White House, emissaries from the president’s office, from the White House and from the secretary of state, and nothing has happened. Nothing. Nothing. More killing. Actually, when I met with Julie in January, it was like, the killing today, three times as much. So, nothing has happened. There’s more killing, more destruction, and the genocide is going on without any — without any reprisal, without any kind of steps to take care from here, from the United States, the most powerful country on the face of this Earth, the one that can really stop the killing, not doing anything.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Osama Siblani, what are the, first, Biden and, now, Harris people telling you behind closed doors versus what they’re saying to the public?

OSAMA SIBLANI: They are not really saying any much. I mean, they listen to us, they shake their head, and we think that something can happen. And the times go, you know, time passes, and all what we see is more killing. There are no promises.

They say that Harris is different, they’re from different generations. But we have not seen anything from her. We’ve been listening. We are good listeners. But so far, we have not listened to anything that changes policy. She said that she is not going to consider an arms embargo. What if they kill more people? What are you going to do? You’re going to continue to give them more bombs to kill more people?

There are no leadership in this country. I am sorry. If they think that they can give us lip service, and then, on November 5, go and vote for them because the choices are very bad, the other choice, they are wrong, because there is another choice: that we can sit home. And this is what most of the people are going to be doing, sitting home and not going out to vote. Is that the right thing to do? Of course not. But what choices do we have? You tell me.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Osama Siblani, I wanted to ask you about this unprecedented moment where for the first time the Democratic National Convention, today, before the actual convention opens, in one of the side meetings, will be hosting a discussion that includes Layla Elabed, who is one of the founders of the uncommitted movement, the sister of the only Palestinian American congresswoman, Rashida Tlaib, and others at the McCormick Center around the issue of Palestinian human rights. Do you think that this is an accomplishment?

OSAMA SIBLANI: Well, every time that we stand and speak about the Palestinian issue and the massacre that’s happening in Gaza, it is important. And I think that this is an important step. However, what changes this is going to make? We have been talking to this administration since October, right after October. And we have been meeting. And every meeting, we listen, they listen, we talk, they listen, they talk, we listen, they leave. Nothing happens. More killing is happening. That is what is happening. Now, we have to stop talk. We have to stop the talk and do something to stop the killing, because this is what’s happening right now, you know, like you see these people are suffering every day more and more, and we keep talking, and nothing is happening. And I don’t understand why we are not able to stop it. This country is able to stop the killing tomorrow. If there is a will, there is a way. But the will is not there anymore.

So, I welcome the discussion, but those discussions are leading us nowhere, Amy. Nowhere. Nowhere. Our people are dying every day, in a way that is unprecedented. We see them on television with body parts, their children, carrying children dead, 16, 17 years old, carrying those babies dripping with blood. That is not a very good scene. That is not how peace is going to be generated in the Middle East. That’s more war and more hate, not peace, not harmony anymore. So, something has to be done to stop Benjamin Netanyahu’s appetite for killing.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: I’m wondering if you’re heartened at least in terms of the change in attitude among many Americans. We’ve seen the votes, the uncommitted votes, in the primary. And even here in Illinois, by my calculations, 50,000 people voted in the presidential primary just in Chicago but did not vote for president, because they didn’t have an alternative or uncommitted slate here, but their votes were not counted. So, there’s at least 50,000 people right here in Chicago who opposed President Biden, and about 100,000 in Illinois. I’m wondering your sense of the change in public opinion in the United States in terms of Israel’s continued occupation of Palestinian land.

OSAMA SIBLANI: I’m very appreciative, in fact, to the change in opinion, especially among the young people. And that is due to, you know, being informed — through social media, unfortunately, not mainstream media — of what has been happening in Gaza and around the world. And I believe that the change is coming in America. I really do. I mean, I look at the demonstrations and the encampments in the universities, all the universities, especially the Ivy League, and we see those are the potential leaders in America. And I believe that in the next maybe decade or two decades, things will change in America. But we have to be patient. We have to be persistent. We have to continue to tell the truth. Once the American people know what is happening, they will make the right decision. That’s what happened in 1968, actually — you know, the history repeats itself — when they were demonstrating against the Vietnam War, and people prevailed, and they changed, you know, policy.

And today, the same thing is happening. America is waking up. The American people are waking up to the fact that there is a crime being committed against civilians in Palestine, and there is a situation there that has been brewing for 76 years, and it is time to end. And therefore, they are going to be aware of it, and they will change it. It’s going to take time. Change in America is coming. I believe in the new generation. I believe in what you guys are doing at Democracy Now! and others. And I think that this is changing opinion. And in fact, I see the change coming, maybe in the next decade or two decades at most.

AMY GOODMAN: Osama Siblani, we want to thank you for being with us, founder and publisher of The Arab American News, the largest, most widely circulated Arab American publication in the United States, speaking to us from Dearborn, Michigan. Harris’s campaign manager Julie Chávez Rodríguez met with him for the second time last week.

Coming up, we’ll speak with two Chicago men who spent decades in prison before being exonerated. Stay with us.