AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org, “War, Peace and the Presidency.” We’re “Breaking with Convention.” I’m Amy Goodman, here in Chicago with Juan González.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: We turn now to look at immigration, which is shaping up to be one of the biggest issues of the 2024 race. On the campaign trail, Republican nominee Donald Trump has repeatedly vowed to deport over 10 million immigrants. At the Republican National Convention last month, Trump falsely claimed there was an invasion at the U.S.-Mexico border.

DONALD TRUMP: The greatest invasion in history is taking place right here in our country. They are coming in from every corner of the Earth, not just from South America, but from Africa, Asia, the Middle East. They’re coming from everywhere. They’re coming at levels that we’ve never seen before. It is an invasion indeed. And this administration does absolutely nothing to stop them. … That’s why, to keep our families safe, the Republican platform promises to launch the largest deportation operation in the history of our country.

AMY GOODMAN: Meanwhile, here at the Democratic National Convention, President Biden hailed his executive action to block migrants from seeking asylum at the southern border.

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: The result of the executive action I took, border encounters have dropped over 50%. In fact, there are fewer border crossings today than when Donald Trump left office. And unlike Trump, we will not demonize immigrants, saying they’re the poison of blood of America, poison the blood of our country. Kamala and I are committed to strengthening legal immigration, including protecting DREAMers and more.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: Democratic presidential nominee Kamala Harris vowed in a recent campaign ad to hire thousands of more border agents.

HARRIS-WALZ CAMPAIGN AD: Kamala Harris has spent decades fighting violent crime. As a border state prosecutor, she took on drug cartels and jailed gang members for smuggling weapons and drugs across the border. As vice president, she backed the toughest border control bill in decades. And as president, she will hire thousands more border agents and crack down on fentanyl and human trafficking. Fixing the border is tough. So is Kamala Harris.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: I’m Kamala Harris, and I approved this message.

AMY GOODMAN: To talk more about immigration and the presidential race, we’re joined by three guests. Oscar Chacón is executive director of Alianza Americas, an immigrant rights group based here in Chicago. Maria Hinojosa is joining us, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and founder of Futuro Media. She’s the host of Latino USA. And Marisa Franco is with us, director and co-founder of Mijente, a national digital organizing hub for Latinx and Chicanx communities.

We welcome you all to Democracy Now! Marisa, we’re going to begin with you, because last night on the stage, one of the Republican border mayors endorsed Vice President Harris for the presidency — right? — crossing parties. You are from Arizona. You’re usually based in Phoenix. If you can talk about the significance of this and why Republicans are joining Democrats and saying the Democratic platform, which is often adopting the Republican platform, is what they are satisfied with now?

MARISA FRANCO: I mean, I think that what we can understand then is, is that the coalition that was formed in 2020, that spans from progressives to folks who are part of the Republican Party, our unity is based off of what we’re against, which is a second term for Donald Trump. But I think the reason we’re here is because we understand we need to be on the outside continuing to push, but also contest space for the inside and, like, what’s happening inside of the party, because at the end of the day, this coalition’s unity ends after Election Day. And so, we have to be prepared to be able to advocate and push. And so, while we are part of this big tent, how are we pushing forward the issues we want to see change on? How are we building our ranks, our base? And how are we ascending the types of leaders that are going to advance the policies that we want to see enacted?

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And when you hear a Donald Trump talking about vowing to deport 10 million immigrants from the United States if he’s elected president, what is your perspective and viewpoint even about the possibility of such a measure?

MARISA FRANCO: It’s a political stunt. And as usual, Donald Trump is talking out of both sides of his mouth. And it’s — I mean, just the fact that the Democrats were going to push a disastrous border bill, that we were all against, and he was the person that stopped it — he told the Republicans to stop it. Why? Because it’s politically convenient for them to continue to have this issue to be able to campaign on. And so, to me, I think there’s also — it’s incumbent for the Democrats — the correct way to engage on this issue is not to adopt the policies or the rhetoric of Donald Trump. And so, you know, Donald Trump is going to continue to use this issue because they don’t want to talk about the real issues. The issues aren’t that immigrants are coming to this country for a better life. It’s the continued — billionaires are the problem, not immigrants seeking a better life. And they don’t want to have that conversation. And I think that’s the conversation the Democrats should not run from.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Oscar, I wanted to ask you — there’s been a lot of attention placed on how the Latino vote in this election will play out. We have about 7.7 million people who have passed the age of 18 and are now eligible to vote since the last election, in 2020, and 53% of them, about 3.9 million, are Hispanic youth. Your sense of how young people, especially young Hispanics, are approaching this coming election?

OSCAR CHACÓN: Well, first of all, I think that it’s important to remember there are millions of voters of Latin American origin. I mean, I like to say that, because sometimes when we say “the Latino vote,” inadvertently we’re suggesting some level of, you know, homogeneity within that universe, which is not really true.

With that said, I think younger voters are more likely to be supportive of, overall, more progressive stance, no matter what issue you pick, including immigration. However, I mean, also it is important to remember there are many people seduced, you know, by some of the arguments raised by Donald Trump and other Republicans, simply because we are part of a nation that has forever and ever praised wealth, praised the notion that a powerful white man that sells himself as a successful businessman is a model to follow. I mean, that is a problem that every community has to tackle in order to aspire to a behavior, when it comes to voting, that is more consistent with what really makes a positive difference in the life of communities, including communities of Latin American origin.

AMY GOODMAN: Maria Hinojosa, I want to have you respond to Senator Mark Kelly. At the DNC last night, Democracy Now! producer María Taracena spoke to Arizona Senator Mark Kelly. And let’s remember how significant he is, because he was clearly one of the last candidates, along with Walz and Shapiro, to be the VP pick for Vice President Harris. This is what Senator Kelly had to say.

MARÍA TARACENA: You were in the run to be vice president in candidate Harris’s ticket. Now you’ve come in support of Harris, of course, for 2024. She’s been very critical at times of Trump’s sabotage of the Senate border bill that did not pass.

SEN. MARK KELLY: As she should be.

MARÍA TARACENA: Some say that she might be alienating some voters as she tries to portray herself as tougher on border security than Trump. Do you think that’s a good strategy? And do you agree with that argument that she might be alienating voters who want something different than Trump’s strategy on the border and immigration?

SEN. MARK KELLY: I don’t think so. As a senator from a border state, border security is important. It’s not good for migrants to have chaos at the border. You know, it just isn’t. I mean, this is a desert. It’s a, you know, hazardous environment. We need an orderly process at the border. Kamala Harris gets that. Donald Trump doesn’t get it.

We had a border security bill that was bipartisan. It was going to do some really positive things, including reuniting families. Kamala Harris supported that legislation. Donald Trump didn’t. And what that legislation would have done, if we would have gotten it passed, it would have allowed us to then work on comprehensive immigration reform.

You know, what I would — you know, at the top of my list for immigration reform is to have a pathway to citizenship for DREAMers. DREAMers are as American as my own two kids. You know, one was born in Maryland, and one was in Texas. DREAMers deserve this. And there’s so many other things we can do that would also strengthen our economy, you know, other visa programs.

But border security is, you know, important for people who live in Arizona, and Kamala Harris gets this. Donald Trump just wants to use this issue to try to win an election.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Arizona Senator Mark Kelly. If you can respond to what he says, but then, overall, what you think the issues are that should be being addressed here, and what is being addressed?

MARIA HINOJOSA: The chaos? There is no chaos on the border, I just need to say. There is a humanitarian crisis, but the chaos was created by the policies initially of Donald Trump. So, let’s just put that — I just think it’s important that we change the narrative entirely. He’s right, what we should be talking about right now is comprehensive immigration reform, comprehensive, and a pathway to citizenship. In that sense, he’s right.

If I was giving counsel to Kamala Harris, what I would say is, “You need to have a primetime address on the issue of immigration. And you need to come to the camera and say, like, unequivocally, 'We are stopping this narrative about immigrants and refugees as a problem, as bringing in crime, as affecting our economy in negative way.'” We have to — she needs to make a statement based in reality — right? — which is, stop with this notion of the border as a place where people are coming in, and nobody knows. She needs to take the moment, because she can, because she’s the daughter of immigrants. There’s nobody who can better do it than her.

Also, Joe Biden’s parting gift — I know people think I’m like out of this, you know, when I say this. Joe Biden’s parting gift needs to be actually for him to say, “Executive order, pathway to citizenship, now.” Why not? What is stopping him? I mean, even the Supreme Court has said that a president is not liable. He’s not breaking the law. He will actually — if he does that, he will guarantee — I’m saying this, and I don’t like to make these predictions. If they do that, Kamala will win, because all of those immigrants who are questioning her position, when she’s like, “We want to be tough on the border,” etc., etc., they would say, “Oh my god! This is in fact our party. This is in fact our candidate.” And they could win. I think it would be a game-changer.

And it needs to stop, this narrative about criminals and immigrants and breaking laws. That is not who we are. And you have to talk to people who have actually been to the border, like Marisa, like myself, like Oscar, to understand that that narrative is not true.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Maria, when you talk about changing the narrative, this whole emphasis on immigration and crime is really a modern version — isn’t it? — of the Willie Horton approach to finding an other to rally the right-wing populists around? Because the reality is that crime rates among immigrants are far lower than they are among U.S.-born citizens.

MARIA HINOJOSA: Hence why when Kamala Harris does her primetime address on this issue, she actually goes really nerdy and has a whiteboard and says, “Let me show you, so it is unequivocal, that the FBI has said that over the last 30 years, violent crime has dropped precipitously. Let me show you on my little whiteboard that the cities where immigrants are arriving to are among the safest — New York City, for example.”

Now, when you take a people, like vulnerable migrants and refugees, and you have them, like in New York City, what’s happening now — you put them into Roosevelt Hotel, then you’re taking them out, then you’re leaving them on the streets, and then you’re moving them around, and then you’re having them in encampments — this is a recipe for disaster. New York should be — I’m just saying New York because that’s where I live — should be doing a much better job, because, sadly, that reality is going to create a very ugly, visible situation, where you’re going to have migrants and refugees sleeping on the streets of New York, which is happening now. That is unacceptable. But then again, the mayor of New York needs to do something. Point is, massive change of narrative that only Kamala Harris can do.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Marisa, I wanted to ask you, in terms of what you would hope — what do you think Kamala Harris needs to do to set herself apart from previous policies of the Biden administration, the Trump administration, and even the Obama administration to some degree?

MARISA FRANCO: Well, one, I think that, you know, one of the tenets of her campaign is freedom, and specifically talking about reproductive freedom, reproductive justice. And inside of that is bodily autonomy. And I think there’s not that far to understand then the freedom to migrate and the freedom to move and the freedom to pursue a better life when we’re talking about immigration. I think there’s a recognition for that.

And to be able to resist the sort of political ploys of the Republican Party, but then also resist the lack of political courage that the Democrats have shown, there is executive orders. There’s pushing what we can push through Congress. But there’s also standing up to the likes of Governor Abbott in the state of Texas, who has taken the mantle that was, you know, very much in my home state of Arizona, and standing up to Greg Abbott and the things that he’s doing and that he continues to do, and standing with Mayor Johnson here in Chicago, who has been receiving folks coming, and different mayors across the country, and being able to actually push forward at the municipal level policies around immigration that I think we have had comprehensive — we have had immigration reform; it’s just been all enforcement.

And so, we need to really turn toward the question of legalization. I think also other key issues, the question of care, and how much she’s been a champion on that, labor, healthcare, education. Like, these are all things that I think people would really support. And finding, you know, the sweet spot between policies that are possible but impactful in our communities, I think, is what people are looking for. I think voters are looking for who gives — who cares about me, who cares about my future. And I think those types of things are things that people would really respond to.

MARIA HINOJOSA: Can I add something?

AMY GOODMAN: Go ahead, Maria.

MARIA HINOJOSA: OK. I know it’s going to sound a little performative, but, again, if I was running the campaign, what I would do is I would make sure that they right now start dropping jingles for Latinos — reggaeton jingle, cumbia jingle, merengue jingle, salsa jingle — that are being broadcast everywhere, that actually say everything that you just said, Marisa, but it’s in a jingle, and that people are now repeating it and dancing it everywhere. I’m telling you, I know it’s performative, but I think that they need to show, like, “OK, we understand that you’re not a bloc. You come from all these different places. We’re going to get down with that.”

AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to the Obamas, because last night they owned the stage. Let’s go to the former President Barack Obama, who spoke last night on the main stage at the DNC.

BARACK OBAMA: They understand that we can secure our borders without tearing kids away from their parents, just like we can keep our streets safe while also building trust between law enforcement and the communities they serve and eliminating bias. That will make it better for everybody.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that was President Obama last night. But when he actually was president, he became known as, dubbed by his Latino allies, to his shock — I remember the moment someone asked him, “What do you think of being called the 'deporter-in-chief'?” And he said, “They’re saying that?” Oscar Chacón, you’re with Alianza Americas. Talk about what President Obama said last night and what he actually implemented as immigration policy.

OSCAR CHACÓN: Well, they always say that presidents tend to say what they should have said and done when they were presidents, which is not always the case. But let me just say that, in my opinion, the problem with not only Biden or Obama is that, literally, going back 35 years, the Democratic Party made a conscious choice to, basically, do not defy the dominant narrative put forward by extremist, racist, xenophobic forces, which are now fully, you know, in control within the Republican Party. And that basic narrative, that paints today’s immigrants as a threat, as a cancer to the nation, sadly, has not been really confronted. I mean, a lot of what we are talking about here would imply that for a new horizon to be put forward, you have to begin with setting the record straight, saying plainly that the attacks against immigrants today are essentially lies. There is no substance to what they are saying.

So, we need policies — and we need jingles, of course, I agree — but they need to be anyways based on truth. They need to be based on evidence. I say it all the time. You know, immigrants and immigration are a true blessing to the country in every way you want to look at it. And they’re also a blessing for millions of households in Mexico, Central America, South America, the Caribbean, when you look at the amount of money the hard-working immigrants send back to their countries of origin, to their relatives. So, again, we need a policy that, yes, just as Marisa said, is harmoniously combined between a reasonable truth-based immigration policy, but also combined with policies that clearly show that our government in the United States of America is truly committed to advancing the well-being of everyone, without any exclusion. I can tell you that a lot of what Obama said yesterday is fully applicable not only to the U.S., but also to many countries that are neighbors of ours. What are we really doing to fix that so that we can, once and for all, begin to tackle the actual so-called root causes of migration?

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Maria, I wanted to ask you, in terms of this narrative and the work that Latinos do in this country, immigrants especially. Here in Chicago, 70% of all the landscapers in the city of Chicago are Mexican, half of all the restaurant workers. And you could go on, all of the low-paid work that is done here by migrants that have helped to revive some of these cities, and yet the narrative is always about the criminality and those who are bringing problems and seeking to use government resources.

MARIA HINOJOSA: So, what I say is, open your eyes — which, again, Kamala should be saying. Enough with what you hear. Actually open your eyes and see the immigrants all around you. And be like, “Huh, oh, this one’s working at 4:00 in the morning doing this or that.” Also, I like to remember, and it’s important that we — I mean, Oscar is a professional. Marisa is a professional. I’m a professional. We’re all immigrants. My father helped to create the cochlear implant here at the University of Chicago, steps away from where we are. So, yes, we are all of those things, Juan. We are the laborers, but we’re also the brains behind this country.

So, that, that has to be so important, because, you know, Juan and I, we’ve been around so long that I know I say, “How is it possible that our Black brothers and sisters and that our fellow Latino, Latina, Latinx and Latine immigrants, sons and daughters of immigrants, are buying into these lies? How is it possible?” It truly is brilliant in the sense of mis- and disinformation. But what we have to do is to then replace that with — every single one who’s listening and watching this, when people say, “I don’t know what to do,” you know what you do? You go and tell the next person that you see, “Hey, do you see that immigrant doing this job? Do you see the immigrant doing this job? Do you know about my immigrant neighbor?” It has to be person to person and just an onslaught of these other messages to combat what we’ve had to deal with over the last several decades.

OSCAR CHACÓN: I mean, after all, Trump is absolutely correct: Say a lie a thousand times, people believe it. And that’s exactly what they’ve done. I mean, the only reason immigration is such a hot topic is not because it’s real. It’s been manufactured by lies.

MARISA FRANCO: There’s something, I think, also, just to name. Like, we’re talking a lot about immigration and Latinos, but this is a really important moment for Black Americans. I mean, the possibility of a Black woman president, I think, is significant. And I think there’s really important things that Michelle Obama actually talked about yesterday that I think actually speak and relate to immigrant people, people of color, people who don’t come from money that do something, that do something, so, like, changing the narrative. A lot of us did not have the privilege of being able to fail forward, as like the likes of Donald Trump.

And so, I think there’s a piece there that — because there is real — we have to come out of this with a stronger coalition of communities of color and low-income communities. And I think that there is real jewels in some of the narrative that she was putting out that connects deeply to values that are commonly held across communities. So, I really wanted to lift that up and also recognize how important of a moment it is and how beautiful it is to see the community mobilizing behind her and how much it’s transformed the campaign. I can say that in Arizona and some of the different states we work in, it is truly shifting at the ground level.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And we only have about a minute, but what is Mijente planning to do from now until Election Day? You haven’t endorsed anyone yet. You did endorse Bernie Sanders in the primaries in 2020. What do you see as your work after this convention?

MARISA FRANCO: We are doing a national tour of over 20 cities called “El Chisme,” that’s broadening the frame beyond the top of the ticket and looking at the local levels. We’re having an event — Maria is joining us — tonight here in Chicago. We’re mobilizing voters in four states, in Texas, Arizona, North Carolina and Georgia. And we’re preparing to hit the ground running in 2025. Pasa lo que pasa, whoever ends up winning, we’ve got to keep organizing.

AMY GOODMAN: You helped Biden win Arizona, turning it blue. You haven’t made an endorsement this time.

MARISA FRANCO: We did not. We did not. I think we’re prepared to mobilize, but we don’t endorse every time. And for us, you know, our members were not — we were not going to endorse Biden. And when it shifted, we were a little bit too far in the game. So, we’re mobilizing, but we did not endorse.

AMY GOODMAN: But, Maria, in New York, Make the Road did endorse Vice President Harris to be president.

MARIA HINOJOSA: That’s why I’m saying this is a particularly fascinating moment. And you have progressive organizations like Make the Road endorsing, others still waiting. But this is why I’m so glad, Marisa, that you brought up the importance of the Black, Latino — also, there are Afro-Latinos. There are so many Black Latinos. That question, like, “Will Latinos vote for a Black man, or vote for a Black woman, in this case?” Yes. And we have to. It’s a historical moment. You know, I’m a kid, a Mexican kid, who grew up here on the South Side of Chicago. My mom, who’s 88 now, made the decision of, “Well, we’re Mexican immigrants, but we are siding with Martin Luther King. That is our guy.” So, that notion of the solidarity between Black and Latino communities must exist.

AMY GOODMAN: We have to leave it there, but I want to thank you for being with us. And, of course, we’ll continue this discussion. Maria Hinojosa, head of Futuro Media; Oscar Chacón, with Alianza Americas; and Marisa Franco, director and co-founder of Mijente.

That does it for this hour. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González, in Chicago.