AMY GOODMAN: But we have to move on right now to another key issue that was raised in the debate last night, what may be the only debate, and that is abortion. We look now at the issue of abortion. This is Donald Trump speaking on the ABC News presidential debate.

DONALD TRUMP: The plan is, as you know, the vote is, they have abortion in the ninth month. They even have — and you can look at the governor of West Virginia, the previous governor of West Virginia, not the current governor, who’s doing an excellent job, but the governor before. He said, “The baby will be born, and we will decide what to do with the baby.” In other words, we’ll execute the baby. And that’s why I did that, because that predominates, because they’re radical. The Democrats are radical in that. And her vice-presidential pick, which I think was a horrible pick, by the way, for our country, because he is really out of it. But her vice-presidential pick says abortion in the ninth month is absolutely fine. He also says execution after birth — it’s execution, no longer abortion, because the baby is born — is OK. And that’s not OK with me, hence the vote.

LINSEY DAVIS: There is no state in this country where it is legal to kill a baby after it’s born. Madam Vice President, I want to get your response to President Trump.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Well, as I said, you’re going to hear a bunch of lies. And that’s not actually a surprising fact.

Let’s understand how we got here. Donald Trump hand-selected three members of the United States Supreme Court with the intention that they would undo the protections of Roe v. Wade. And they did exactly as he intended. And now in over 20 states there are Trump abortion bans which make it criminal for a doctor or nurse to provide healthcare. In one state, it provides prison for life. Trump abortion bans that make no exception even for rape and incest, which understand what that means. A survivor of a crime, a violation to their body, does not have the right to make a decision about what happens to their body next. That is immoral. And one does not have to abandon their faith or deeply held beliefs to agree the government, and Donald Trump certainly, should not be telling a woman what to do with her body.

I have talked with women around our country. You want to talk about this is what people wanted? Pregnant women who want to carry a pregnancy to term suffering from a miscarriage, being denied care in an emergency room because the healthcare providers are afraid they might go to jail, and she’s bleeding out in a car in the parking lot? She didn’t want that. Her husband didn’t want that. A 12- or 13-year-old survivor of incest being forced to carry a pregnancy to term? They don’t want that.

And I pledge to you, when Congress passes a bill to put back in place the protections of Roe v. Wade, as president of the United States, I will proudly sign it into law. But understand, if Donald Trump were to be reelected, he will sign a national abortion ban. Understand, in his Project 2025, there would be a national abortion — a monitor that would be monitoring your pregnancies, your miscarriages.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s Kamala Harris and President Trump debating the issue of abortion in last night’s ABC debate that was moderated by Linsey Davis and David Muir.

In these last few minutes we have together, Amy Littlefield, abortion access correspondent at The Nation magazine in Boston, if you can respond to President Trump’s shifting approach to abortion, and what Kamala Harris argued?

AMY LITTLEFIELD: I mean, Amy, can we just pause for a minute and talk about how sick it is that we’re now almost a year into Israel’s war on Gaza, and the only — and, you know, images emerging every day of mothers and fathers in Gaza weeping over the bodies of their dead infants and children, and the only dead baby we heard mention from the debate stage was a figment of Donald Trump’s imagination? I mean, this talking point, which is his number one talking point on abortion, that abortions happen after birth. And we finally had a moderator who was prepared. I mean, please, let’s give Linsey Davis the Pulitzer Prize for best one-liner in a presidential debate, because she nailed that, right? In no state in the country is it legal to kill an infant after birth, OK?

But, you know, I thought Kamala Harris was finally out there channeling the outrage and the profound sense of violation that many people across this country feel in the wake of the Dobbs decision. I wish she had pushed back more strongly on the issue of later abortions. You know, the issue of abortions taking place after the viability point, which, of course, you know, Roe v. Wade, that framework, which Harris said she supported, ends — the protections end, allowing states to ban abortion after that point. I wish Harris had been more staunch in defending people who need abortions later in pregnancy.

But, of course, you see Donald Trump, you know, across the board, trying to espouse basically every conceivable position on the issue. And Harris I think, finally, we have a candidate who, you know, eyes shining, talking about women bleeding out in parking lots, having their IVF treatments interrupted, was really channeling the rage and sadness that so many people feel after Dobbs.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Amy, this whole thing of Trump claiming that he did — by the elimination of Roe v. Wade, he allowed the states to decide something that the people kept telling him that they wanted, for the state governments to decide how to control women’s bodies?

AMY LITTLEFIELD: I mean, you know, again, you have this situation where Donald Trump is claiming credit for overturning Roe v. Wade, but then saying he’s going to make IVF free and then saying maybe he’s going to vote in favor of the abortion rights ballot initiative in Florida, but then maybe he’s not, but then maybe he will again. I mean, Trump is a moving target.

But, look, we have to look at his record here. What did this man do? He overturned 50 years of precedent, right? He put the Supreme Court justices on the court to overturn Roe v. Wade. People are not going to forget that. I mean, to quote the great Taylor Swift, who of course endorsed Kamala Harris and Tim Walz on Tuesday, “In plain sight you hid, but you are what you did.” OK? I don’t think we’re going to forget what Donald Trump did when it comes to abortion rights.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, Amy Littlefield, we want to thank you very much for being with us. And when Taylor Swift issued that endorsement last night, she signed it “childless cat lady” with a photo of her cradling one of her cats. Amy Littlefield, abortion access correspondent at The Nation. I want to thank all the folks who joined us today, including Ralph Nader and Joe Stiglitz — and you can see our continued debate that they will have after the show at democracynow.org — and Carol Anderson, as well as Jean Guerrero.

This is Democracy Now!, produced by Mike Burke, Renée Feltz, Deena Guzder, Sharif Abdel Kouddous, Messiah Rhodes, Nermeen Shaikh, María Taracena, Tami Woronoff, Charina Nadura, Sam Alcoff, Tey-Marie Astudillo, John Hamilton, Robby Karran, Hany Massoud and Hana Elias. Our executive director is Julie Crosby. Special thanks to Becca Staley, Jon Randolph, Paul Powell, Mike Di Filippo, Miguel Nogueira, Hugh Gran, Denis Moynihan. I’m Amy Goodman, with Juan González. Thanks so much for joining us.