AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman, with Nermeen Shaikh.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: We turn now to look at how many Western governments, including the United States, are cracking down and even jailing climate protesters. The group Climate Rights International has just issued a report titled “On Thin Ice: Disproportionate Responses to Climate Change Protesters in Democratic Countries.” This is a short video accompanying the report.

MORGAN TROWLAND: Hello. It’s Morgan. I’m a civil engineer from London. As part of Just Stop Oil, I’m occupying the QE2 Bridge. We’ve just survived the first night up here. We’re up here until the government makes a meaningful statement to cancel all new licenses and consents for oil and gas extraction, because oil and gas is killing us now and it’s driving millions into poverty.

MARCUS DECKER: It needs to be done, because we act on behalf of life.

NARRATOR: Morgan Trowland and Marcus Decker climbed the Queen Elizabeth II Bridge outside London to raise awareness about climate change. For 36 hours, they stayed on top of the bridge. For their peaceful protest, Trowland served 14 months in prison, and Decker spent over 16, the longest sentences ever for a peaceful protest in the United Kingdom. Decker, a German national, is now being threatened with deportation.

The United Kingdom is not the only government responding harshly to climate protesters. Many democratic governments in the Global North are passing harsh new laws which restrict the fundamental right to peaceful protest and imposing heavy penalties, including prison.

LUISA NEUBAUER: In Germany, which considers itself a strong democracy, a very free country, we’re seeing increasing charges against climate activists who are part of peaceful civil disobedience actions. I would say it’s one of the most terrifying effects that we’re seeing worldwide. As the climate crisis demands us to act drastically, radically and promptly, we see governments being busy bullying climate activists.

CHRISTIAN BERGEMANN: The name “Letzte Generation,” which is the name of the group I belong to, translates to “Last Generation.” This name is derived from a Barack Obama quote, which was, I think, in 2015. We are the first generation to feel the effect of climate change and the last generation who can do something about it. Maybe the most dramatic response from German authorities to the peaceful protests of Letzte Generation have been house raids, on the accusation that these people were a criminal organization.

SIEGER SLOOT: To me, climate activists are like the canaries in the coal mines. We are not protesting for fun. We’re not protesting to gain on a personal level anything, except a livable future.

NARRATOR: The escalating impacts of the climate crisis and frustration with governmental inaction are fueling protests. Climate protesters in many Western democracies are resorting to the kinds of peaceful civil disobedience used by the civil rights and similar movements.

LUISA NEUBAUER: This is no longer action against climate activists; this is action against democracies and the freedom of the people.

CHRISTIAN BERGEMANN: The way the authorities are looking at us is basically as a problem to get rid of.

TIM MARTIN: They’re hoping, with enough repression, we’ll give up and we won’t get any building of the movement.

NARRATOR: Many of these countries suppressing these protests have repeatedly pushed other more repressive governments to allow protests. This is because they know that the right to protest plays a vital role in democracies. Protests allow individuals to advocate for change, hold companies and governments accountable for their climate commitments, and engage in public affairs to drive sustainable solutions. Yet, just when they should be welcoming public concern about the existential threat of climate change, they are acting like the autocrats they criticize.

SIEGER SLOOT: Somewhere at the end of January 2023, I got arrested with seven other Dutch citizens who are very much worried about the climate crisis, and that was because we posted online that we were going to protest against fossil subsidies in Holland.

NARRATOR: Sloot and his fellow activists were detained before the protest and later convicted of the felony of sedition for inciting others to commit a criminal offense. Other climate activists have been held in preventative detention to stop them from attending protests.

CHRISTIAN BERGEMANN: I was detained and brought to jail in September 2023. We were about 45 people arrested out of these hundreds who had been protesting in the state of Bavaria. The judge, he asked me if I was going to continue doing these protests. And as we affirmed that, we were sent to jail for the next 10 days.

JOANNA SMITH: At a certain point, I realized that nonviolent civil disobedience was what was going to raise the necessary level of awareness about the climate crisis.

NARRATOR: Peaceful civil disobedience, which involves an act of deliberate lawbreaking, is recognized as a form of exercising the rights of freedom of expression and freedom of assembly under international human rights law. Any punishment should be proportionate.

TIM MARTIN: Our version of climate protest is to disrupt the public, to call the public into the conversation.

JOANNA SMITH: We went into the museum with washable nursery school finger paint, and we approached The Little Dancer in her protective box, which no other children in the world have. And it was never our intention to cause any harm. There is a difference between creating the appearance of damage and actually damaging and injuring things. My hands looked bloody, and Tim’s were black for dripping oil.

Hello, friends.

TIM MARTIN: And what these actions do is wake people up. It’s designed to engage the public in their emotional centers.

JOANNA SMITH: We need our leaders to take serious action, to tell us the truth about what is happening with the climate.

And then we were arrested, as we were expecting to be. The first charge was conspiracy against the United States of America. The second was a felony damage charge for injuring a National Gallery exhibit.

TIM MARTIN: We’re just doing this for our children.

JOANNA SMITH: Each of those charges have a maximum sentence of five years in prison and a monetary fine of up to a half a million dollars.

Please take climate action now.

The conspiracy charge equated me with the January 6th insurrectionists who stormed the Capitol trying to overthrow our government violently with weapons and massive destruction. And what I did that day at the National Gallery is completely nonviolent for the common good, which is what civil disobedience is.

NARRATOR: Joanna made a plea deal due to a debilitating health condition and was sentenced to two months in a federal facility. Tim Martin is waiting to go to trial. Some climate protesters face restrictions on how they defend themselves against criminal charges. In some courts, climate protesters are being prohibited from discussing the motivations behind their actions, undermining their right to a fair trial. Instead of prosecuting protesters, governments should see climate protesters and activists as allies. After all, they have been more successful than governments in raising awareness about this existential challenge.

LUISA NEUBAUER: The fact is that climate activism is not something you’re born into, but it’s something you stand up to do, no matter where you are in your life. And I would say, from all the years of activism and for all the thousands of people I’ve spoken with, the one really most powerful answer to desperation is action.

AMY GOODMAN: A new video by Climate Rights International, released along with the group’s new report, t “On Thin Ice: Disproportionate Responses to Climate Change Protesters in Democratic Countries.”

We’re joined now by two guests here in New York: the climate activist Joanna Smith, who was jailed for 60 days in federal prison for defacing an exhibit that displayed Degas’s Little Dancer sculpture at the National Gallery of Art in Washington, D.C.; we’re also joined by Linda Lakhdhir, legal director of Climate Rights International.

So, we just saw this video of what the climate protesters, like Joanna, are doing. But talk about the crackdown on them and why you focused on Western countries, Linda.

LINDA LAKHDHIR: We started noticing that there were these harsh sentences being imposed on climate protesters in countries that traditionally have been very vocal about the right to freedom of assembly, that have criticized other countries about their crackdowns on protest. And so we thought it was an interesting thing to look at.

And what we found is that in a number of these wealthy democratic countries, the sorts of sentences being used on the treatment of climate protesters is truly reaching a very repressive level. You have very long sentences being imposed, as you heard. You have people being put in preventative detention in order to prevent them from attending protests. You have water cannons and pain grips being used against peaceful protesters. So, it’s really striking how these countries who have held themselves up as beacons of rule of law are essentially repressing peaceful protest.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: But it’s also the case that the countries that we associate with having the most progressive climate policies — I mean, Holland, Germany, etc. — that they’re featured so prominently in the film and in the report as ones that are also cracking down on climate activists. So, if you could talk about that? Like, what most surprised you in what you found?

LINDA LAKHDHIR: I mean, it is surprising. But I think that although they are more progressive, they aren’t moving fast enough. None of them are moving fast enough. And I think a lot of protesters are — people are frustrated with lack of action by their governments. They feel like they have to be out in the streets, because this crisis is — it’s here. And the response has been, “Well, this kind of messes up our day. This causes disruption.” And the truth is, all protest causes disruption. But the response by a lot of these governments has been to enact new laws, to arrest people, to ban people from protesting, in order to, essentially, make it easy for everybody else to get around.

AMY GOODMAN: And, of course, these Western countries, these so-called advanced industrialized countries, are the ones that are causing the greatest amount of climate catastrophe. Which brings us to Joanna Smith, this protest you did at the National Gallery in D.C. For our radio audience, they might not have been able to picture what exactly you did with Degas’s Little Dancer at Age 14.

JOANNA SMITH: Yes. We decided that all of the things we have been doing as community activists, advocates, all of the electoral work — we were trying to get the right people in office. We were showing up to all the rallies and marches. We have been protesting at fossil fuel infrastructure sites. We have engaged our electeds, done citizen lobbying. None of that is working. As we just noted, the crisis is here now, it’s unfolding in front of us, and our governments are failing us. What can we do as concerned citizens when faced with what is happening to our children’s future and that of children around the world?

Tim Martin and I decided that we needed to take some dramatic action. We wanted it to be peaceful. We wanted it to be nonviolent. But we wanted it to get the attention that this climate breakdown deserves. And unfortunately, mainstream media has not been covering it. You guys do a great job. You’re an exception. We thought, “How can we create the impression of the urgency of what’s unfolding?” So, we did go to the National Gallery in our nation’s capital. We chose Degas’s very famous sculpture of a little ballerina girl, called Little Dancer, Age 14. We chose her because she was very protected. She is displayed in a climate-controlled box. She’s shockproof in this museum.

AMY GOODMAN: Plexiglass box.

JOANNA SMITH: Plexiglass, on a pedestal. She’s beautiful. The whole world loves her. There are copies of her all around the world. She stands for defiance in the face of vulnerability. Tim and I are parents. Tim has two boys. I have two boys. And we wanted to highlight a beautiful work of art about a child that the world values.

And we wanted to make a point, which we did in our speech that we delivered at the gallery that day, that while this artifact of a child is so well protected and so beloved, we are sacrificing millions and millions of children around the world, particularly in the Global South, particularly the children that are least to blame for our emissions crisis. And we wanted to challenge anyone who saw our protest to think about: What do we really value? What do we really hold true and dear? Is it a sculpture, or is it real children around the world?

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And explain what you were charged with, two felonies.

JOANNA SMITH: Yes. We were charged with two felonies for gently applying washable nursery school finger paint to the outside of this property of the National Gallery. We never intended, nor did we damage the art itself. But we wanted to create a symbolic act of — we rendered some symbolic speech. We applied black and red paint to the outside, the red symbolizing our human life force and our culpability in the crisis, the black symbolizing oil and gas, the fossil fuel climate criminals who are wreaking the destruction. We created some very naive art of our own on the pedestal, illustrating some of the problems that are befalling our planet — you know, massive extreme weather events, unspeakable heat, tragic fires breaking out all around the globe. And we illustrated that. And then we gave a speech about what we expect our government to do, which is take a lot more action and faster.

AMY GOODMAN: You pled guilty, and you’ve just gotten out of jail.

JOANNA SMITH: Yes, yes.

AMY GOODMAN: You served 60 days. And Tim is about to go to trial?

JOANNA SMITH: That’s correct.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to turn to Linda on this very interesting issue. At the end of the video, you talk about problems with what happens to protesters when they are charged and when they go to trial, saying they should be able to explain the science behind climate change and why their actions are in the public interest. Many people may not realize, often you cannot explain this in court. They just look like people who came to deface beautiful art.

LINDA LAKHDHIR: That is actually — that is correct. In many courts, the judge will say, “Well, that’s not relevant, why you did it. You did this act. The only issue at court is whether you did or did not do that act.” And there’s actually been instances in the United Kingdom where the judge has told the defendants that they can’t explain their motivations, and, when they have spoken about climate change anyway, jailed them for contempt. So, people are not only being forbidden from talking about the reasons why they have taken these actions, how they’re motivated by their fear for the planet, the future for their children, but they’re also actually being jailed if they try and make those arguments.

AMY GOODMAN: And so, the jury, if there is a jury trial, never hears.

LINDA LAKHDHIR: No.

NERMEEN SHAIKH: And so, Joanna, if you could talk about — I mean, this was not your first act of climate protest. You did many other things prior to this. If you could talk about the steps that you did take? And how would you advise young climate justice activists now? What do you think they should be doing?

JOANNA SMITH: Well, I think that the repression that Tim and I have faced here in the United States is designed to dissuade these young activists from doing what is necessary to address the current crisis. And what is necessary is to use our voices, to use our bodies, to use our political power to put an end to the desecration of our sacred and beautiful planet by capital forces that are only interested in greed and profit.

But I would encourage people to do their homework about location, about jurisdictions, about what the risks that they may face entail. Most grassroots organizations that are doing direct action around climate are very well supported by legal teams. There’s a lot of good advice out there about what your rights are as a protester. And it’s a matter of insisting upon our government actually upholding our rights to free speech, freedom of assembly, freedom of association.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you both for being with us, Linda Lakhdhir, legal director of Climate Rights International, and Joanna Smith, climate activist with the group Declare Emergency. We’ll link to Climate Rights International’s new report, “On Thin Ice: Disproportionate Responses to Climate Change Protesters in Democratic Countries.”

Coming up, Cherokee journalist Rebecca Nagle, author of the new book, By the Fire We Carry: The Generations-Long Fight for Justice on Native Land. Stay with us.