AMY GOODMAN: This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org. I’m Amy Goodman.

Several Democratic lawmakers are calling for Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth and national security adviser Mike Waltz to resign, after they discussed plans to bomb Yemen on a Signal group chat. Waltz had set up the chat, which also included Vice President JD Vance, then accidentally, apparently, invited The Atlantic magazine editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg to join. On Tuesday, President Trump downplayed the severity of the lapse, saying it, quote, “turned out not to be a serious one.” Trump also defended Waltz, saying he had learned his lesson and was a good man.

In the Signal chat, Vice President Vance initially argued against the strikes on Yemen, saying, quote, “3% of U.S. trade runs through the Suez. 40% of European trade does.” Vance also said, “I am not sure the president is aware how inconsistent this is with his message on Europe right now. There’s a further risk that we see a moderate-to-severe spike in oil prices. I am willing to support the consensus of the team and keep these concerns to myself. But there is a strong argument for delaying this a month, doing the messaging work on why this matters, seeing where the economy is, etc.”

In response to the first wave of bombings, Waltz posts emojis of a fist, an American flag and fire. Over 50 Yemenis were killed during those U.S. strikes on Yemen, including children.

Democratic senators grilled Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard and CIA Director John Ratcliffe over their involvement in the Signal chat. This is Gabbard responding to a question from Democratic Senator Mark Warner of Virginia.

TULSI GABBARD: There was no classified material that was shared in that Signal chat.

SEN. MARK WARNER: So, then, if there was no classified material, share it with the committee. You can’t have it both ways. These are important jobs. This is our national security.”

AMY GOODMAN: The Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard refused to say if she was on the group chat, even though there was a participant with the initials T.G. National security experts say using Signal to share classified information likely violates the Espionage Act and federal records law.

Meanwhile, Congressmember Rashida Tlaib said on social media, quote, “More heat for using a group chat than for the bombing itself.”

We’re joined now by two guests. We’re going to begin with Safa Al Ahmad. She’s a journalist who’s been reporting on Yemen since 2010, award-winning director of the Frontline documentaries Yemen Under Siege and The Fight for Yemen. Also with us still, Branko Marcetic, Jacobin staff writer.

Safa, let’s begin with you. Today is a very significant day.

SAFA AL AHMAD: Yes, it is. Sadly, it’s the 10-year anniversary of the Saudi-led war on Yemen, which the U.S. has been backing for these 10 years. And so it’s ironic to me to see messages from Vance saying we have to do more messaging about who the Houthis are, when we have, as Americans, been involved in this war for so long.

AMY GOODMAN: The U.S.-backed, Saudi-led bombing of Yemen.

SAFA AL AHMAD: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: Now, in these attacks on March 15th — and we don’t see any mention of this — almost none in the corporate media is talking about the actual attacks — what? Something like 53 Yemenis were killed?

SAFA AL AHMAD: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: Who were they?

SAFA AL AHMAD: So, we don’t have specific numbers yet of how many civilians among them. But as you saw the Pentagon briefing, that they denied there were any proof of any civilians killed, even though, factually, there were children killed. But this is a track record of most U.S. administrations, of denying that there were any civilian casualties, until you actually go on the ground and you prove that. And I was there the last time the Trump administration had U.S. raids, and they had killed civilians, but the Pentagon refuses to accept or acknowledge their responsibility for those killings.

AMY GOODMAN: So, Vance’s response is very interesting. First of all, it’s a serious putdown of the president.

SAFA AL AHMAD: Yes.

AMY GOODMAN: He’s saying, “I don’t think he understands what’s going on.”

SAFA AL AHMAD: Correct.

AMY GOODMAN: But he also says he was against the bombing because why are we doing Europe’s work, he basically said.

SAFA AL AHMAD: Yeah, and also no timing.

AMY GOODMAN: This is only 3% of our trade; it’s 40% of Europe’s trade. Let’s do some messaging for a month to explain why we’re going against our own philosophy of supporting —

SAFA AL AHMAD: And interests.

AMY GOODMAN: — not supporting Europe.

SAFA AL AHMAD: Yeah, correct. I mean, but this goes to how the United States has not taken responsibility, really. They want — double standards here. They want to bomb Yemen, regardless of whether they’re attacking the Houthis or they’re claiming to attack ISIS and al-Qaeda there. Regardless of that, they continue to change the targets of who they are killing in Yemen. But regardless of that, they are killing Yemenis, with no recourse for the Yemenis themselves. So, whether it’s the interests of Europeans or the Americans, it’s been going on in Yemen for so long now with zero — zero — accountability. There’s over — as per the U.N., over 300,000 people have been killed during this war. So…

AMY GOODMAN: Explain why the U.S. is attacking Yemen now.

SAFA AL AHMAD: Well, they’re now attacking Yemen because the Houthis are attacking ships that are going through the Red Sea through Bab al-Mandab, which is the strait that the Houthis currently have access to and control. And the Houthis are saying that they’re doing this in support of the Palestinian people, and the people in Gaza specifically, because, they said, “If you lift the siege on Gaza and you let the aid in, then we will stop the attacks.” And so, preemptively, the United States, this specific time, this March, they started doing that because the Houthis were saying, “We’re going to start again,” because the Israelis had completely stopped all aid coming into Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to bring Branko Marcetic into this conversation. Republicans were even suggesting that Jeffrey Goldberg, the editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, who was so shocked that he was included in this chat — it was a Signal chat — actually thought it was some kind of disinformation campaign, did not think it was real, had gotten the invite a few days before from the national security adviser, from Mike Waltz. But then, on that Saturday morning, when he was sitting in a parking lot doing some shopping, he saw them say the bombing, Hegseth, is about to begin. And sure enough, two hours later, all over Twitter, all over X, the bombing had begun. And he then came to understand that this was for real. Now the Republicans are trying to suggest, even as they attack him as a terrible journalist, that he somehow hacked into this. But if he was able to hack into this Signal chat, who else was able to? What other country was able to, Branko?

BRANKO MARCETIC: Well, yeah. I mean, Steve Witkoff, who is Trump’s envoy, was in Russia at the time, and he was on the group chat. So, you have to think, if Jeffrey Goldberg was able to hack here, which I don’t think is what happened, then surely the Russian government has probably got its hands on their communications, as well.

I mean, I think that this excuse, the idea that Goldberg hacked into it, is a very obvious way to shove blame away from someone like Mike Waltz, who — you know, the uncomfortable question for Waltz here is: Why is it that he had Jeffrey Goldberg’s number in his phone, so that he mistakenly added him to this chat, when Jeffrey Goldberg is someone who has written many critical stories about Trump, a journalist that Trump has quite a vendetta against? And also, by the way, Jeffrey Goldberg is someone who very prominently sold false information that led to the Iraq War. So, the question is, beyond everything else that we’re talking about: Is there a level of discord here within Trump’s team that is being exposed that they are now trying to kind of cover up?

AMY GOODMAN: What do you think, Safa, is most important for people to understand at this point?

SAFA AL AHMAD: I mean, I think this is not the first time that such a leak has happened. In my last film when I was in Yemen, the special ops team that had landed in a tiny little town of Athlan, they had left a medical backpack with the true full names of the special ops soldiers that were there in the attack, plus two more names, just one name, and we were wondering — we asked the Pentagon, “Who are these two names?” And they were classified dog names that they had brought in with the team, right? And the list of names, 22 names, were laminated. And so, not only did they bring it in, it was laminated. It had full names.

And so, the Trump administration at that time didn’t even take responsibility for that or admit that it was wrong. And I would argue that it’s even more dangerous when you’re saying that you have gone into a town to attack al-Qaeda compound.

And so, I mean, the Atlantic journalist showed a lot of restraint by not publishing or saying more when he was added to the chat. But they were very lucky. I mean, it could have been somebody else. I mean, it’s really — it’s astounding, the level of insecurity in these texts.

AMY GOODMAN: And we just have 10 seconds, but, Branko, a Signal chat is timed to disappear, so, of course, the National Archive won’t have a record of this planned attack and what was going into it, which was so clearly delineated in the texting of the Defense Secretary Hegseth. Fifteen seconds.

BRANKO MARCETIC: Yeah, I mean, I would just remind people that what we saw in those chats is that there was actually no legal rationale under the Constitution for doing these strikes. The rationale was deterrence and shipping, protecting shipping. That is not in the Constitution that allows the president to unilaterally launch a war, for this nebulous idea of protecting international shipping. Only Congress is actually able to declare war.

AMY GOODMAN: Branko Marcetic, Jacobin staff writer, and Safa Al Ahmad, journalist who has been reporting on Yemen since 2010.

When we come back, we look at the mass protests and arrests in Turkey. Back in 20 seconds.

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AMY GOODMAN: “People Have the Power,” Patti Smith at Democracy Now!’s 20th anniversary celebration, standing with Michael Stipe. She will be celebrated tonight at Carnegie Hall, and Michael will be one of those singing.