AMY GOODMAN: “Slip Knot” by Woody Guthrie. The CD, Buffalo Skinners: The Asch Recordings. They’re songs about cowboys, outlaws and other Western themes, as we follow President Bush to Brussels.

In his opening remarks to NATO leaders in Belgium, President George W. Bush said NATO allies must modernize their forces and face up to new security threats. While Bush avoided explicit reference to his national missile defense proposal, he was clearly trying to win support for the controversial weapons.

Outside, over 300 people protested against Star Wars, nuclear warheads in Belgium and the U.S. withdrawal from the Kyoto Protocol on global warming. Also today, around 30 people from Greenpeace chained themselves together to block the exit from the military airfield where Bush arrived.

We’re joined right now in Brussels by Caroline Dossche, activist with Greenpeace Belgium.

Can you tell us what happened, Caroline?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: Yes. We arrived with about 30 people of about 15 different nationalities at the main exit of the military base in Melsbroek, near Brussels, and we saw the Air Force One landing. And so we blocked the exits of the military base.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about the parachutist?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: Well, I can’t really talk about it, because that happened at NATO. And I just know that the parachutist, he flew with a big banner over the demonstrations, which were about 400 people. And they all walked direction NATO. That’s the only thing. The man was — got arrested. That, I know.

AMY GOODMAN: How unusual is it to occupy a NATO base?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: Well, the base where we were was a military base, and it’s connected to the NATO base. It’s really close. It’s like five minutes’ drive. It’s not so common, because for the coming of Bush, there was priority of safety rules, and so it’s not common in a way that it’s a bit dangerous, as well, because we don’t know how the American security forces will react on our peaceful and nonviolent actions.

AMY GOODMAN: We’ll ask Katri Silvonen more about the NATO occupation, but I want to ask you, Caroline Dossche, with Greenpeace, did you manage to delay Bush’s arrival?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: Well, we weren’t able to go where the plane was landed, because that’s too dangerous. But we managed to make Bush leave through a back exit, which is, in a way, a bit humiliating, because he’s coming from the other side of the road and visiting like Europe.

AMY GOODMAN: How did you manage to escape arrest while everyone else got arrested?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: I think I’m a good negotiator. I was there to protect the people and look for their safety. And so I insisted that I wasn’t arrested, until — so that I could look for everyone’s safety and that, because a lot of people were stuck to each other with pipes and cuffs and chains, and when there’s a lot of police and military people, there always have to be people around to take care of the safety of the activists.

AMY GOODMAN: Why is Greenpeace so much in the forefront of these protests? And had you heard about the protests that took place in Madrid at the beginning of Bush’s European tour, mainly people who were protesting the death penalty?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: Well, we heard about the demos in Madrid. And we had — yesterday in front of the American Embassy, we had about 2,000 people demonstrating. They were all NGOs, big ones and small ones, women’s rights, Amnesty, all the main and little NGOs, to protest against this arrival. Greenpeace is mainly concerned about the Star Wars he wants to promote in Europe, and also about the Kyoto decisions, which were made and which were rejected by Bush.

AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined on the telephone by Katri Silvonen, who is an anti-nuclear campaigner for Mother Earth. Can you tell us about the occupation of the NATO base, Katri?

KATRI SILVONEN: Do you mean the occupations that we’ve done in Kleine Brogel?

AMY GOODMAN: Yes. Before we move to the future, when did they take — to what’s going on right now. When did they take place?

KATRI SILVONEN: The last one we had on the Easter Monday, in April on the 16th. We had a big action in the base of Kleine Brogel, which is actually a Belgian air force base, but it has a little NATO base within the area, where 10 U.S. nuclear bombs are deployed. And in that demonstration, we had 850 people who trespassed the base and walked to the runway and stayed there for a few hours before getting arrested. And this was the biggest action that we had so far, but we’ve done actions like this the last four years.

AMY GOODMAN: In a way, that was an interesting buildup to the protest today, that one taking place in April. How unusual is it — let me ask you the same question I asked Caroline Dossche — to occupy a NATO base?

KATRI SILVONEN: Well, this was the — when we did this action in April, it was the first time that we really occupied a NATO base. The other times when we’ve been doing actions there, we’ve called them citizens’ war crimes inspections, because the base is a secret nuclear weapons base, and we’ve been wanting to collect evidence whether there are nuclear weapons there or not. And now we think that we have enough evidence to know that these U.S. nuclear weapons are there. And that’s why we moved on to from inspecting the base into occupying the base. But that was really the — yeah, the first time that we really did it in Belgium.

AMY GOODMAN: In that arrest, mass arrest of 850 people, you were actually not — people were not prosecuted. Why?

KATRI SILVONEN: Well, one of the aims of our campaign here in Belgium has been to get a court case about nuclear weapons, because we think that nuclear weapons are illegal and that these nuclear weapons are illegally deployed in Kleine Brogel. And we had one court case two years ago, when three members of Parliament who had taken part in a direct action in the base were brought to police court. And after hearing the defense of these people, the court decided to declare themselves incompetent, because the matter was political, and in Belgium, the political crimes have to go to a court with a jury. And we think that we didn’t get a court case after that, because we — the government knows that we have a fair chance of winning a court case if there’s a jury to listen to our evidence. And that’s why we think that we never had to go to court after that.

AMY GOODMAN: I understand 15 Belgian MPs were with you, as well, members of Parliament.

KATRI SILVONEN: Yeah, that’s true. It was not the first time that members of Parliament joined these actions. There will also famous actors and writers and people from all kind of parts of the society who joined these actions.

AMY GOODMAN: Katri Silvonen is speaking to us from Brussels, an anti-nuclear campaigner for the group Mother Earth. What about today’s protest of President Bush? Describe it.

KATRI SILVONEN: Today there were like 400 people at the NATO headquarters while the meeting between George Bush and the NATO heads of state was going on. The demonstration was quite loud as people saw the limousines of these heads of state passing by and driving into the headquarters. People were chanting “No Star Wars” slogans, and there were loads of banners about Star Wars and national missile defense, but also about climate and environmental and human rights issues.

There were many signs stating, “George W. Bush: Wanted for crimes against humanity and the planet,” and posters on the same subject. That was — one of the ideas with the demonstration was to really say that we think that because Bush is breaching so many international agreements, that we really should catch him and take him to a International Criminal Court once it’s set up. And so, there was also an international citizens’ arrest team who asked the local police to give them a hand to arrest President Bush.

Also, we had — the coalition who organized the demonstration, we had asked to get a meeting at the NATO headquarters to talk with President Bush about his disrespect towards international agreements. But, unfortunately, the meeting was refused.

AMY GOODMAN: It’s interesting. President Bush, in his first trip to Europe, chose not to go to the big three European countries — Germany, England, France — but chose Spain, where he expected to get a warm reception from the conservative government there, though it would have helped probably if he called the Spanish leader by his correct name, Aznar, as opposed to Anzar. But he did choose to go to Belgium, where you are. Why?

KATRI SILVONEN: I think the reason why he came here is that he wanted to talk about the development of the U.S. national missile defense system and the Star Wars with the NATO allies. I believe that that was the main point in the agenda of the meeting of today that they’re having at the NATO headquarters, because, so far, in Europe, there’s been not so much support towards the Star Wars plant. And I think that one of the main reasons why Bush is now on tour in Europe is to convince the NATO allies to support his plans on this.

AMY GOODMAN: And what are your thoughts about this missile shield and getting rid of the ABM Treaty?

KATRI SILVONEN: I think it’s really bad, because it’s probably going to start a new round of nuclear arms race. And it’s also in violation with international treaties like the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and Outer Space Treaty. And, yeah, I think it’s really not all right.

AMY GOODMAN: The quote of President Bush in Spain at Aznar’s official residence was “The ABM Treaty is a relic of the past.” He went on to say, “It prevents freedom-loving people from exploring the future, and that’s why we’ve got to lay it aside.”

KATRI SILVONEN: Yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: What about U.S. efforts to expand NATO? What is the response of the people of Belgium?

KATRI SILVONEN: I don’t actually know so much about the Belgian views on the NATO expansion, because I’m not Belgian myself. I’m from Finland. And in countries like Finland, people are really concerned, because Finland is just between the NATO and the ex-Soviet Union. And there are really strong concerns of NATO moving closer and closer to the east, and that also causing problems with the ex-Soviet Union feeling that they have to have stronger defense, nuclear defense.

AMY GOODMAN: Caroline Dossche, what about you as an activist with Greenpeace in Belgium?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: Excuse me. Could you repeat your question, please?

AMY GOODMAN: The issue of U.S. pushing for NATO expansion, the response of the people of Belgium?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: Well, I’m not 100% sure what the people of Belgium know. But I know the point of view of Greenpeace is that Greenpeace is not for the expansion of NATO in Europe. That’s something for sure. The information is sometimes a bit difficult for the people of Belgium to understand. I think it’s a divided — they’re dividing — there are divided meanings around that.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you both very much for being with us. Do you plan on following President Bush as he leaves Belgium and moves on?

CAROLINE DOSSCHE: I think some people will follow him, yeah. He’s going to go to Goteborg soon. So, I think it’s quite close here in Europe, so people will follow him, yeah.

AMY GOODMAN: Well, I want to thank you both very much for being with us. Democracy Now! will certainly follow him on his trek on to Sweden. Caroline Dossche, activist with Greenpeace Belgium, and Katri Silvonen, anti-nuclear campaigner for Mother Earth. She’s Finnish, in Ghent right now in Belgium, with the mass protests against the U.S. president. You’re listening to Democracy Now! When we come back, we’ll speak with Congressmember Barbara Lee about the resolution passed yesterday to honor the — to honor Shirley Chisholm, the first African American woman to run for president. And then we’ll talk to Daniel Ellsberg. Today is the 30th anniversary of the release of the Pentagon Papers. Stay with us.