AMY GOODMAN: Ari, you also wrote a piece for Mother Jones headlined “Why Ballot Measures Are Democracy’s Last Line of Defense.” So, for example, you have actually 11 ballot measures in 10 states around abortion. Some people are talking about a scenario where this is the year of the women — women do tend to vote more than men — and that across the political spectrum, even those who are concerned about abortion are deeply concerned. I mean, we saw it in The Des Moines Register poll that just came out. They just put into place a six-week abortion ban. You have women who were dying who want to have children. Something happens with the pregnancy, and doctors are afraid to touch them, and they die. That this will drive women out in droves, especially around these ballot measures, where, then, in their states, they will then vote for the top of the ticket. If you can talk about ballot measures?

ARI BERMAN: The reason why I called ballot measures “democracy’s last line of defense” is that direct democracy is really the only way in certain places to protect key rights from hyper gerrymandered legislatures and right-wing courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court. So, in many states, if you want to protect abortion rights, the only way to do so is through direct democracy, is through ballot initiatives. And that’s why abortion rights initiatives are on the ballot in 10 states, including some really important swing states like Arizona. People are really motivated about this. Lots of states have passed six-week abortion bans that are incredibly unpopular with the public, including in places like Iowa. I think this is going to be a major sleeper issue in the election, the number of people that turn out for these ballot initiatives on issues like abortion.

It’s also broader than just abortion rights in terms of what’s on the ballot. There are 150 ballot measures this cycle that voters are considering. There are things like banning partisan gerrymandering in Ohio. There are things like raising the minimum wage, protecting marriage equality. A lot of stuff is happening on the bottom of the ballot that isn’t getting as much attention but is critically, critically important, and people are getting out. And I think what Democrats are trying to do is they’re trying to link what’s happening at the bottom of the ballot to the top and say that if you want to protect abortion rights in a place like Arizona, you also have to vote for candidates that are going to protect abortion rights, like Kamala Harris compared to Donald Trump.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Ari, I wanted to ask you about the issue of the Electoral College. You’ve been pretty vocal in your writings about the need to abolish it. Could you talk about why and what the prospects are for having actual elections that depend on the actual votes of all the people rather than on the Electoral College system?

ARI BERMAN: So, the Electoral College is undemocratic, it’s antiquated, and it’s racist. It dates all the way back to slavery. It was put in to restrain democratic participation and to protect elite white power. And it creates a situation where you can lose the popular vote but win the Electoral College, where seven swing states representing 15% of the population decide the presidency, to the detriment of 85% of Americans. It depresses voter turnout in states that aren’t these prized swing states. So it depresses turnout in the 43 other states that aren’t going to decide the presidency.

And there is now a movement to abolish it, called the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. One way to do it is through a constitutional amendment. That’s very hard. But through this National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, states that reach 270 electoral votes, they could then pledge to appoint the winner of their state to the winner of the popular vote nationwide. And right now those states have 209 electoral votes. They’re short of 270. But that’s what happens — that’s why what happens at the state legislative level is so important, because if Democrats can pick up places like Arizona, like Wisconsin, like Pennsylvania, they can then move to join this interstate compact to then abolish the Electoral College.

So, I think you’re going to see renewed momentum to try to abolish the Electoral College if there is a popular vote-Electoral College split this time, which there very well could be. But even if there isn’t, I think we have to ask ourselves: Why do we have this ticking time bomb every four years, where someone could win the popular vote but lose the Electoral College? And why do we have a system that prioritizes a handful of swing states to the detriment of the rest of America?

AMY GOODMAN: Ari Berman, we want to thank you for being with us, voting rights correspondent for Mother Jones magazine. We’ll into your pieces, “How Election Deniers Took Over Georgia’s Election System,” as well as the one on ballot measures. He is the author of Minority Rule: The Right-Wing Attack on the Will of the People — and the Fight to Resist It.

And, Ari, we will see you tonight in our New York City studio as part of our four-hour election special from 8 p.m. to midnight Eastern time. We’ll also be airing an expanded two-hour election show on Wednesday morning from 8:00 to 10:00 Eastern time.

Next up, we look at a new Latino USA investigation into “The Misinformation Web,” targeting Latinx voters in battleground states and beyond. Back in 20 seconds.