AMY GOODMAN: We’re also joined by sociologist Nikhil Goyal, The Lever’s David Sirota and Yousef Munayyer, head of the Palestine-Israel program at the Arab Center Washington DC. I want to go back to Vice President Harris speaking in her first major TV interview since President Biden dropped out of the race five weeks ago. This is Dana Bash of CNN asking Harris about her policy on Gaza.

DANA BASH: President Biden has tried unsuccessfully to end the war between Israel and Hamas in Gaza. He’s been doing it for months and months, along with you. Would you do anything differently? For example, would you withhold some U.S. weapons shipments to Israel? That’s what a lot of people on the progressive left want you to do.

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: Let me be very clear: I am unequivocal and unwavering in my commitment to Israel’s defense and its ability to defend itself. And that’s not going to change. But let’s take a step back. October 7, 1,200 people are massacred, many young people who were simply attending a music festival. Women were horribly raped. As I said then, I say today: Israel had a right — has a right to defend itself. We would. And how it does so matters. Far too many innocent Palestinians have been killed. And we have got to get a deal done. We were in Doha. We have to get a deal done. This war must end.

DANA BASH: And in the meantime —

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: And we must get a deal that is about getting the hostages out. I’ve met with the families of the American hostages. Let’s get the hostages out. Let’s get the ceasefire done.

DANA BASH: But no change in policy in terms of arms and so forth?

VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: No, I — we have to get a deal done. Dana, we have to get a deal done. When you look at the significance of this to the families, to the people who are living in that region, a deal is not only the right thing to do to end this war but will unlock so much of what must happen next. I remain committed, since I’ve been on October 8, to what we must do to work toward a two-state solution, where Israel is secure and, in equal measure, the Palestinians have security and self-determination and dignity.

AMY GOODMAN: That’s Kamala Harris. For more, we are joined by Yousef Munayyer, Palestinian American analyst, head of Palestine-Israel program at Arab Center in Washington, D.C., joining us from Virginia. Your response to what she said, Yousef?

YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Well, to put it simply, it was quite pathetic. There was, as we saw there, a “no” on the question of whether there will be a change in policy. And let’s be perfectly clear about what the current Biden-Harris administration policy is. It’s the continued and unprecedented support through consistent weapons supplies to the Israeli military as it carries out a horrific genocide against the Palestinian people in Gaza, where somewhere between 40,000 and perhaps up to 200,000 people, according to some estimates, have already been killed, 80% of the structures in Gaza have been damaged or destroyed, and nearly 2 million people are homeless, displaced and living under dire humanitarian conditions due to a tightening siege. That’s the policy that Vice President Harris is committing to continue. And I think that that’s, of course, outrageous.

And in her answer, she continued to go back to this idea that we need to get a ceasefire, we need to get a ceasefire. And of course we need to get a ceasefire. Congratulations to Vice President Harris on getting to where the international community was last November. But why aren’t we there? Well, the key reason we are not there is because of the United States’ continued and consistent support to the Israeli military so that it can continue carrying out this genocide.

And, of course, there was no follow-up question from Bash there on that, where there absolutely should have been. And here, I just want to make a point about the way that this question was sort of presented and framed. I think you played it a moment ago. It’s important for journalists to be able to hold our elected officials accountable and to ask these questions. But I’m wondering: Who was the journalist here holding the candidate accountable to? The way that this question was framed, “Will you consider ending or modifying aid to Israel as some folks on the progressive left want you to do?” suggests that the journalist is trying to hold her to account to some sort position in the American center. But that’s not where people are. In fact, the vast majority of Democrats, as we’ve seen in polls time and again, are now supporting an end to arms to Israel. The majority of independents are supporting an end to arms shipments to Israel. And, in fact, nearly 40% of Republicans are at that place now, according to a recent CBS poll in June, that they also support an end to arms to Israel at this time. That’s where the Biden-Harris administration is: to the right of 40% of Republicans.

So, the real question should have been: When are you going to start enforcing U.S. law as it relates to arms shipments? Because what we are doing right now with this U.S. government policy is in violation not just of international law, but also of American law. And Vice President Harris made it very clear in other parts of her interview that she wants to be a prosecutor. She wants to enforce the law. But Israel here is clearly getting an exception from the Harris campaign.

AMY GOODMAN: Do you think there’s any difference between Kamala Harris and Joe Biden? Everywhere Joe Biden went, you know, including — I mean, we’re going into Labor Day. Biden and Harris will be together in Pittsburgh, big labor rally. When he went to see the UAW months ago, when he was running for president, they were supporting him, but also many were holding up signs around Gaza, calling for a ceasefire. You have that interview done yesterday, Thursday, I think around 1:00, 1:30. At around 5:00 in Savannah, where she and Walz held a big rally, a massive rally of thousands of people, she was also interrupted by pro-peace Palestinian supporters, Yousef.

YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Well, look, there doesn’t seem to be any noticeable difference on policy. In fact, she said as much yesterday during the interview. And if there is any indication that there is going to be a difference, it might be, as hard as it is to believe, that Harris could be worse than Biden. The president, despite his unprecedented support for this Israeli genocide over all of these months, has in the past come out and said that there is indiscriminate bombing by Israel; that Benjamin Netanyahu, it’s fair to believe he’s playing politics with the ceasefire, and that’s why it’s not getting done; that the protesters, as he said at the DNC convention, have a point because of how many civilians are being killed. That’s not something we’ve heard from Kamala Harris so far. We’ve just heard the sort of pro-Israel talking point boilerplate that she led with yesterday and an empty answer on policy change.

AMY GOODMAN: Let’s talk about the “uncommitted” vote and what happened at the DNC. You have many people represented on the stage, on many different issues, a call of the uncommitted vote, the more than 30 delegates from around the country and the 300 self-proclaimed pro-ceasefire delegates — though I’m sure, if a poll was done, there were many more — calling for a Palestinian American speaker on the stage. Can you talk about what happened there and where uncommitted goes from here? They, in their sit-in, being very disappointed by not having a Palestinian American address the convention, called for Kamala Harris to come to Dearborn by September 15th to meet with the Palestinian community there.

YOUSEF MUNAYYER: Well, I certainly don’t speak for the uncommitted movement, but it’s very clear that that did not take place at the DNC. There was no Palestinian speaker allowed to be on the stage to speak their truth about what is happening to Palestinians, thanks to U.S. support for Israel. And, you know, that request from the uncommitted movement was, I think, the simplest of asks. You know, listen to what a Palestinian has to say.

And if, you know, the Harris campaign — and if this is representative of what her administration is going to do — does not even have the political courage and wherewithal to hear from a single Palestinian speaker, how are voters who care about this issue supposed to believe that she is going to have the political courage to do what it takes to press the Israelis to end this genocidal campaign in Gaza and, moreover, to actually get to the policy goal that she did mention in her comments in her interview, which is, of course, a Palestinian state and some form of self-determination and dignity?

So, I think, clearly, there was a failure of a test here to demonstrate that they’re willing to do something — anything — on this issue. And it was also reflected, frankly, in how unprepared she was for the answer that she gave yesterday on a question that everybody knew was coming. She simply could not give a clear answer on what change needs to happen to get to the ceasefire that this administration has failed to deliver.

AMY GOODMAN: Yousef Munayyer is head of the Palestine-Israel program at the Arab Center Washington DC.