AMY GOODMAN: I want to go to Edward Snowden, meaning I want to turn —

CHIP GIBBONS: Sure.

AMY GOODMAN: — to the confirmation hearings for Tulsi Gabbard, Trump’s pick for the director of national intelligence. She refused to call whistleblower Edward Snowden a traitor repeatedly throughout this hearing. This is a heated exchange with Colorado Senator, Democrat, Michael Bennet.

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: Was Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America?

TULSI GABBARD: Senator, I will also repeat my answer. He broke — he broke the law.

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: I would like — you said earlier that you were offended by a question that my colleague from Kansas asked, which I think was his duty, as somebody on this committee, to fulfill his responsibility to advise and consent. We are not here to be a rubber stamp for the president of the United States. So, let me ask you again: Do you believe, as the chairman of this committee believes, as the vast majority of members of our intelligence agencies believe, that Edward Snowden was a traitor to the United States of America?

TULSI GABBARD: Senator, if confirmed as director of national intelligence —

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: This is when the rubber hits the road.

TULSI GABBARD: — I will work with you to make sure —

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: This is when — this is not — 

TULSI GABBARD: — that there is not another Snowden-like leak.

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: This is not a moment for social media. It’s not a moment to propagate theories, conspiracy theories, or attacks on journalism in the United States. This is when you need to answer the questions of the people whose votes you’re asking for to be confirmed as the chief intelligence officer of this nation! As my colleague said, this is not about you. It’s about the people that serve the intelligence agencies of the United States. Is Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America? That is not a hard question to answer when the stakes are this high.

TULSI GABBARD: Senator, as someone who has serve in uniform —

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: Is your answer yes or no? Is Edward Snowden a traitor to the United States of America?

TULSI GABBARD: As someone who has worn our uniform —

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: I’ll go on to my questions. Did this —

TULSI GABBARD: — in combat, I understand how critical our national security is.

SEN. MICHAEL BENNET: Apparently, you don’t. Apparently, you don’t.

AMY GOODMAN: So, that’s Democratic Colorado Senator Michael Bennet echoing questions from other Democrats and Republicans. There was a kind of consensus here. And Tulsi Gabbard repeatedly refused to call the whistleblower Edward Snowden a traitor. Chip, we just have two minutes. For those who aren’t familiar with this case, but also what this means if she were to become the director of national intelligence, or if it’s going to be the basis on which she’s voted down?

CHIP GIBBONS: Well, first of all, I want to say that Senator Bennet’s performance was worthy of the House Un-American Activities Committee.

Edward Snowden is not a traitor. He is a patriotic whistleblower. Treason is the only crime defined in the United States Constitution. It is defined incredibly narrowly. Edward Snowden has never been charged with treason. He has been charged with unauthorized disclosure of national defense information.

Edward Snowden worked with journalists who won Pulitzer Prizes to expose the illegal, unconstitutional mass surveillance programs of the National Security Agency, which were targeting U.S. citizens and others. In spite of the claims that these were foreign counterintelligence programs facing outward, Snowden showed conclusively the NSA, working with the FBI, was being used to engage in the bulk collection of Americans’ metadata and was abusing other surveillance programs to access Americans’ communications and get information about them. One of the results of Snowden’s disclosures was the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals found one of the programs he exposed to be —

AMY GOODMAN: We have 30 seconds.

CHIP GIBBONS: — to be illegal and likely unconstitutional. Someone who exposes the violations of Americans’ rights is not a traitor. It is a betrayal of the oath of office to violate the Fourth and First Amendment rights of Americans.

AMY GOODMAN: A man who many consider a hero, across the political spectrum, Dan Ellsberg, before he died, said that Edward Snowden is Dan Ellsberg. Chip Gibbons, I want to thank so much for being with us, journalist, policy director of Defending Rights & Dissent, where he’s advised multiple congressional offices on reforming the Espionage Act, currently working on a book on the history of the FBI. That does it for our show. I’m Amy Goodman. This is Democracy Now!, democracynow.org.